Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on December 2, 2011 at 2:27pm

I would start documenting EVERY time you see this woman...seems way too everdone but with someone like this you are better off doing more than less. I would not say what you are doing just keep a running record of it.

 

Good luck!

Permalink Reply by Sandy Stickney on December 2, 2011 at 1:49pm

Hi Katy,  sorry to hear you are having this kind of issue.  It is certainly no fun.  We had a neighbor down the street that was a sweet old man with 2 obedience trained shelties, one was a therapy dog, and the neighbor next to him was RELENTLESS in his harrassment of the sweet old man.  He was constantly calling the cops and Animal Control.  The number of complaints filed at Animal Control was really a crying shame, and such a waste of resources, as they were totally unwarranted.  The mean neighbor even had Animal Control set up a trap in his yard to catch them if they happened to wander into his yard. And he had tried to poison them in the past.  (The dogs were never unattended, and hardly ever off leash.)  The poor sweet old man finally had to move away.  It is very unfortunate that there are people like that in the world.

 

I would caution you to protect yourself the best you can by following the rules (HOA and city/county ordinances), and try to avoid contact with this neighbor as much as you can so as to limit any opportunities for her to complain.  Knowing the HOA rules can be very advantageous, as I have found in our community, most people like to use the HOA rules as weapons/threats but they don't even know what the actual rules are.  And while a camera to document may be a good idea, I would just be careful that it does not cause an escalation/retaliation.   Maybe you could set up a video camera at your window to record any activity?

 

I wish you the best of luck, and I hope for a peaceful resolution, because, again, it is no fun to have neighbors like that.

Permalink Reply by Ludi on December 2, 2011 at 2:32pm

In France we don't really have associations like this for housing complexes (we do have syndicates for apartment buildings, but they handle maintenance). This is very alarming that an individual like this can try and get your dog forcibly "destroyed" just because she says so, with little to no proof. I hope Maddie will avoid any sort of harm through this ordeal, and people who crusade against innocent animals are just despicable.

Permalink Reply by Yuki & Ellie on December 2, 2011 at 2:51pm

Yeah, it's a trend that I really hate to see increasing here in the U.S.  There are certain areas where you simply can't avoid living in a Home Owners' Association if you want a decent commute to work.  It's not always a bad thing, but I don't really understand the appeal behind having someone tell you what you can/cannot do with your house and property.

Permalink Reply by John Wolff on December 2, 2011 at 2:37pm

Join 'em before you try to beat 'em.

My suggestion is to NOT assume that "...there really is no reasoning a sick mind like that."   The only way to get a good resolution out of this is to get her on your side.  To do that, you have to BE on her side.   Go to her -- and you can't fake this, you really have to have some empathy with her view of things, even if it's twisted -- get her talking.  Let her get her side of the story out before you try to tell yours (advice from a principal I once worked under).  Tell her that you know she loves her dog as much as you love yours, and you want to make sure everybody is safe.  You're both dog owners.  You have common ground.

Definitely try this approach before you try confrontation, or talking about police.  Make sure you know her dog's name, and talk about "...Fluffy", not "...your dog."  Talk about your respective dogs using first names.

If you can get her to see you as just another person like herself, who wants to get along with no problems, when you're a familiar face, a neighbor, not an abstract stranger, then you're safe with her.

Remember that the woman might be genuinely afraid for her dog.  You'll need to allay those fears.  Scared people are more dangerous than people who feel safe.

It might help to explain that dogs' ordinary normal behavior can appear really vicious to us.  Go to Joanna Kimball's "Ruffly Speaking" blog; I think she has/had a good discussion of this, and how a perfectly normal, ordinary dog conversation -- to establish dominance, hierarchy, territory -- can look like a vicious fight to the death to us.   Kimball describes two dogs restoring the mother of a newly whelped litter to her former place in the pack after the pups were gone (mothers become much more dominant while they have to protect their pups):  2-on-1, teeth bared, spit flying, howling snarls at max volume, teeth-on-throat, one dog had her ear in its mouth and was SHAKING it.  But this was controlled mayhem;  they got up, dusted off, all over.  No blood;  the ear was wet but not even red.  Bite inhibition.  If there's no damage, there was none intended.  Try to explain this to her. 

Maybe you could print out that blog for her.  Kimball is on MyCorgi I think; ask her if you can't find it on her blog (Blacksheep Cardigans/Ruffly Speaking).

Maybe your dog did nip her dog, while it was defending its territory -- if it did, and did not draw blood, it did not intend to.  Ask her what she saw.  Was there blood, wounds, a vet visit?  If not, your dog was merely saying, "hey, bug off."  Empathize with her ("...that must have looked really scary to you; I hope Fluffy wasn't hurt...").

I've seen Al suddenly turn into a monster and viciously, savagely attack another dog, snarling, teeth on throat... no damage, only a wet ruff.

Permalink Reply by Beth on December 2, 2011 at 3:10pm

I tend to agree with John that I'd try something else first.  Once you involve the police, the "war" will be impossible to de-escalate.  Go talk to her, preferably in a public place, and say something like 'I understand you seem to be afraid of my dog.  She's always leashed except the one time she got loose.  She DOES bark because, like many herding dogs, she gets excited when she sees things running but she's never bitten anything that I'm aware of.  Can you tell me what happened to make you afraid?"

 

Document every encounter starting today and DO watch out for poison, but perhaps there is a genuine misunderstanding.  She might just be on a power trip but I would try to take a deep breath, bite my tongue and see if I can get to the bottom of it first.   And then if that does not work I might say something like "Well, shall we talk to the police together then if you think I've done something illegal?"   and see how she reacts. 

 

By the way, mine are both dog-friendly but Jack goes nuts if another dog (even one he knows) walks across the front yard.  I'd never let him out when he's that wound up, though we've had dogs in the house (invited) and he's ok with that.  So she might hear your dogs aggressively barking when she walks by, recall the time the dog got loose and ran, and have painted an inaccurate picture in her head of what is happening.

Permalink Reply by Katy on December 2, 2011 at 3:23pm

Thank you EVERYONE for you're great suggestions! I hate involving police, like most people would, it's a waste of their time. I'll talk with my family and see what they think, my mother is the one who gets the most anxious and would tend to say something that would set this woman off further. I think I'm the only level head here O_o

Thanks again you all, I really appreciate it and it's helpful to have people who can give both ends of the argument. 

Permalink Reply by Zigward & Kimberly on December 2, 2011 at 4:17pm

Make sure your dogs eat NOTHING they find outside! My aunts neighbor threw rat poisoned raw meat into her yard all because she called and complained that they wouldn't put up a fence-and their dogs had seriously messed up her one of her cats. Anyhow, they got into trouble and the meat was their revenge. If I remember correctly, it only killed one of her many dogs-but that was one too many. So just make extra sure to watch them carefully at all times! You never know what some people will do just because they're awful and can.

Permalink Reply by Jeannie on December 2, 2011 at 4:37pm

If this woman has done this to other families in your building  association, then your governing committee should have heard her line before.  It might be worth your time to contact other families she's done this to and see if there is a pattern to her accusations.  Also, what sort of dog does she have?  Is hers a little purse dog that might truly be intimidated by a Corgi, or is it some sort of enormous beast?  Is there a possibility Maddie might calm down about the other dog if you had a doggy play date?  My Corgis act all barky about anyone- human or canine- as long as they are outside the door or the fence.  Once the guest is inside, it's all about playtime.  And I heartily agree with Elizabeth & Kymii.  Be very careful about your Corgis eating anything they find when they are out. Good luck.

Permalink Reply by Anna Morelli on December 2, 2011 at 6:32pm

I love what John Wolf wrote, and the key phrase is : "To do that, you have to BE on her side.   Go to her -- and you can't fake this, you really have to have some empathy with her view"   As Wayne Dyer says: " When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change".  Escalation will rarely resolve an issue, but will usually cause more grief and involve more people ending up having a life of its own.  I would play it down in my mind first, then with others and I would look for aspects of the woman you may actually appreciate ( she loves her dog, she wants to protect it, she may have had some bad experience, she may have other things in her life to cope with that I don't know about, my dog was off leash and she had good reason to be scared, we could be friends and that would be nicer, etc.)  No use approaching the neighbor until you have found that place of ease within yourself.  Look at this as an opportunity. In life you will find many others who do not play by the rules as you see them and it helps to know you can shape the outcome by shaping your own approach.  

Permalink Reply by Beth on December 2, 2011 at 6:55pm

I was thinking the same sort of thing.  Sure, maybe she's just a bit off.  But maybe she had a much-loved dog mauled to death in front of her one time and she's over-sensitive.  Or maybe she's been attacked, or her dog is dog-reactive and she's been working for ages to have her improve and when a loose dog runs up it sets her off.  Any number of things.  I do think it's at least worth trying to start a dialogue.

Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on December 4, 2011 at 9:31am

Wayne Dyer...haven't thought of him in a long time! Good info from him:)

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