Tan or brindle points?

Hi everyone, first post here! We recently added a cardigan puppy to our family (we also have a ~1 year old Pem named Henry) and as I was looking over his paperwork I noticed the breeder checked "brindle points" on his registration. I'm not an expert in cardigan colors, but I've looked at TONS of pictures through blogs and forums ,and it seems to me he is tan pointed? What do you think?

Thank you!

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Permalink Reply by Joanna, Rainy and Calvin on August 17, 2010 at 4:29pm

I can't really help you with brindle or tan points, but I sure vote for some cute points. He's adorable!!

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Permalink Reply by Aj on August 17, 2010 at 4:34pm

I believe your corgi has tan points also.
http://www.corgis.biz/Cardigan_Welsh_Corgi_Colors.htm

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Permalink Reply by Bev Levy on August 17, 2010 at 4:46pm

Seems like I read somewhere that all Cardis with Black on them have some brindle. Maybe Joanna Kimble will comment.

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Permalink Reply by Elizabeth on August 17, 2010 at 6:07pm

Isn't he gorgeous with those different colored eyes?! Black and white with tan points Cardis are actually tri-colors and he looks like he might be a tri (but then again he could have brindle points). Hard to tell. I have a blue merle who is registered with tan points, but I could swear he has some brindle on him (and they can't have both tan and brindle). All black and whites I believe must have some brindle or tan points (there's no such thing as a pure B/W). Good luck with this!

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Permalink Reply by Theresa + Caitlyn on August 18, 2010 at 1:24am

Here is a report on the genetics: http://www.cardigancorgis.com/documents/Acrobat/healthGeneticsStudy...
Elizabeth is right that all black and white Cardis are really tris (but not necessarily with brindle points). If they look like only b/w, it just means the points are hidden.
So, there are two main colors of Cardis - sable and tri. If the sable doesn't have black hairs, it's red. If the sable has brindle, it's brindle. The tri will either be b/w (if the points don't show) or tri. If the tri has brindle, it will either be b/w (if the points don't show) or b/w with brindle points. I didn't get how the merle affects the sable, but obviously with the tri the black part is merled.
This baby tri sure does not look like he has brindle. Maybe the points were darker when he was a newborn.
Now, Elizabeth's boy is a tri with merle. And I agree that his points look brindle!

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Permalink Reply by Avyon on August 18, 2010 at 9:32am

omg he is adorable! Look at those eyes :)

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Permalink Reply by Jane on August 18, 2010 at 10:39am

Thank you for the input everyone. :) Most people seem to think he is tan pointed so far. A very experienced lady on another forum I visit thought tan points as well. I really don't see any brindling on him in person but this is my first cardi puppy so I'm definitely no expert!

The litter he was from had one other tan pointed puppy (this little guy had lots of tan on his face), and I think 3 brindle pointed b/w puppies. When we went to see them the difference in the points was quite obvious but I never really thought about it until I was looking through is paperwork. It's possible the breeder just got him mixed up or checked the wrong box accidentally.

This is a picture of a few of the puppies when they were about 6 weeks, Luke is in the back sleeping but you can see the difference in his color compared to the brindle pointed girl in the front.

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Permalink Reply by Joanna Kimball on August 18, 2010 at 2:48pm

I would have registered him as tan-pointed.

He's going to be really blonde as he grows - those points are going to end up almost yellow. Very striking.

I don't know who he's from, of course, but it's very possible that she registered the puppies' colors when they were very tiny. Sometimes the tan-pointed babies look very dark for the first couple of weeks and you have to wait until they're over a month old to definitely tell who's tan and who's brindle. The merles are even harder; there are a lot of merles out there registered as the wrong point color because it wasn't obvious until they were almost adult what point colors they had.

It's not really a big deal, since he won't be bred. The only time it gets awkward is if the dog is registered as tan-pointed and is then bred to another tan-pointed dog and (lo and behold) has brindle-pointed puppies, which couldn't happen if they were really both tan.

My Clue is registered as tan-pointed but I have some real doubts (she has some funny markings on her cheeks that could be stripes), especially given that when she was bred to a brindle-pointed boy who carries tan we got only one tan-pointed puppy out of nine. We should have had half and half. It certainly could have been just the luck of the draw but I sort of suspect that she's brindle but just very lightly striped, and the merle swirls the stripes out of visibility. Again, doesn't matter as long as I don't get any surprise puppies, which I won't because her second breeding will also be to a brindle-pointed boy.