So I feed Frank TOTW and I was wondering if anybody else who fed it has had a urinalysis done on their corgis since you began feeding the food. We were doing urinalyses in class today and I ran franks urine and he had A TON of crystals. The vet said it could be food related. He had a UA done last year (before on the food) and it was normal. Just wondering if anybody else has had a UA done after feeding TOTW and if crystals were found before I rush him to the vet for $200+ in tests. He shows no symptoms of a urinary tract infection or discomfort of any kind

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Soory, I feed TOTW but never had a UA done on mine!
This thought may/may not have anything related to corgis BUT I am trying to remember years ago and a cat I had that had this problem. I am not sure if the food caused the crystals but he did need to go on a special low protien  diet. This I do know was also more of a problem in neutered males. Sorry I can't remember more but I do wonder if it could be the same in dogs.
yeah definitely something I will look into. The last U/A I had done was before Franklin was put on "premium" high protein dog food. Maybe it is something to do with the protein levels....I'll have to do some more research.
Let me know what you find out please!

I seemed to recall hearing about high protein diets possibly causing stones.   Carnivores eating fresh meat would get lots and lots of water from the meat itself (something like 80% water, I think).  Kibble doesn't give that.  

 

I did some poking around online, though, and it seems there are several different types of stones, some of which could possibly be worsened by high protein, but others that are more likely to be caused by chronic UTI's or other issues. 

 

So I guess it's possible it's diet, but could be totally unrelated.  Also, TOTW has some high-protein formulas and some average-protein formulas, so I'm not sure which one Frank is on.

The vet was thinking more of a pH issue of the food. He had struvite crystals, which are caused by alkaline urine. But he also had another type too. Unfortunately our reagent strips that help test the pH were outdated so we couldn't actually test his pH in lab today. The weird thing is that carnivores are supposed to have more acidic urine. He was previously on Wilderness and we recently switched (maybe 3ish months ago) to TOTW. He is on the sierra mountain formula that has 25% protein (which is really low considering his old "crap" food Purina One also has 25% protein....). So maybe its the drop from a diet with 34% protein to one with 25% protein. Guess I'll have to suck it up and take him to the vet. I swear this dog is going to put me in the poor house! We JUST got over the whole broken foot and rotting foot pads..... augh.

25% protein certainly isn't high, I agree.

My roommates cat has a history of urinary tract problems, so I looked up a lot of info in cats so I'll tell you what I know about cats, though it is basically what Beth said.  Maybe the same applies to dogs?  Basically, cats get UTIs and stones and crystals because they are supposed to be getting their water from their diet. But, cats fed dry food aren't getting that because it's dry!  That's why its recommended to feed your cat wet food daily-- to offset the water loss by feeding dry food.  The animal does not know how much water to drink to replace the missing water from its diet, and then these problems arise because there is not sufficient water for processing.  Dogs drink much more than cats (per unit of body weight, or so I've noticed), so these problems would be less apparent in the dog.  Maybe Frank is on the borderline of not drinking enough to make up for the dry food?  As for it being TOTW specifically, maybe there is an ingredient or several ingredients that require more water to break down.

 

Edit: In case you were wondering, my roommate's cat's problems were cleared up by switching him from purina dry food to Wellness wet food in the evenings with a small amount of Wellness dry food in the morning. The vets couldn't figure it out, but at my suggestion she switched food and now she has 100% less vet bills!  My one success story, haha.  

hmm maybe I'll add some canned food to his diet, I feed him in interactive toys so can't just add water to his kibble. He has no symptoms of a UTI so that's why I'm not running off to the vet asap. Thanks!

Wow. Good sleuthing! I recently switched from TOTW to Orijen, for kibble. But I also add various types of meat to my dog's diet; sometimes raw, sometimes cooked. Like Melissa, I like to just put kibble in the ball - keeps him occupied & slows down that piggy pembroke eating process!

Rachel what you're saying makes sense too, as on some of the raw sites they talk about not feeding raw & kibble or cooked together in the same meal as their digestive systems handle each a little different. hmm, a bit to think about.

Thanks for sharing this info & your insights, all of you!!

Yeah, I feed Waffle Orijen when I'm feeling lazy and/or he looks bored.  I got him a Wobble Kong for it; he loves that thing.

Keep in mind that cats, as desert animals, have a very low thirst drive.   Dogs have a much higher thirst drive.  So the water thing can be a factor, but it's not quite the same as the issue in cats who will sometimes live their lives chronically dehydrated because of not drinking enough.

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