Aggression - please help
My Corgi, Wilbur, was almost two when he started showing serious signs of aggression toward my husband and I. He has always been food aggressive so he has to go through an entire production to eat food and we work on petting him while he eats. Back in late October/November he started biting us. His biting is random for the most part with no rhyme or reason. I will be petting him and things look to be going great until he suddenly attacks. We have consulted a trainer but the biting hasn’t stopped. My Wilbur walks great on a leash, is almost 100% on healing and is very smart. He can often learn a new trick within 15 minutes instead of the hours it takes our almost one year old Ellie. We don’t know what triggers his barking. After obedience training the severity of his bite attempts have lessened (we can actually get our hands out of the way on time). Wilbur is a very sweet dog but it is hard to trust him because he will go from loving and affectionate to suddenly attacking. Any ideas on this? He is neutered and pretty obedient.
Wilbur also has a barking problem. He has had this problem sense he was a puppy and we’ve never need able to break it. We tried praise, ignoring him, treats (where he would bark just so he could get the treat when we said “quiet”), and we also tried the spray bottle (tragic). We’ve been working with a trainer and are now at the shock collar stage. We only use a minimal setting (much lower than an electric fence) and tested the intensity on ourselves before using it on the dog. The collar isn’t helping much either. We allow his low barks (or chuffs) and other corgi noises and only correct the loud barking. He’s been in the same house his entire life (we live on a main road) and nothing has changed. Please help. I love my corgi but his behavior is out of control. He went from a dog I fell asleep on the couch with to one I don’t trust on my lap. He is very intelligent and friendly until he attacks. It is making for a very difficult living situation when you add the barking on top of the bite attempts. I’m reminded of the times he didn’t miss every time I look at my scarred finger from the two times he got ahold of me. Have any of you experienced this before? Your advice is appreciated.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jane on
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I personally would try medication before I rehomed or euthanized a dog, but this really depends on your personal situation. Have you ever seen this blog? http://reactivechampion.blogspot.com/ She pretty much details the entire process of putting her reactive dog on medication and the results she experienced. It will be different for everyone/every dog obviously, but it can work.
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Permalink Reply by Anna Morelli on
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Sorry I got the name wrong, this post says "Amy" but was for Priscilla .
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Permalink Reply by John Wolff on
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McConnel http://www.patriciamcconnell.com/product/the-other-end-of-the-leash... relates a few cases of biting behavior. I don't think her book will allow you to diagnose your dog's behavior, but it does illustrate the possible complexity of the situation. I think one case was fear-biting misdiagnosed as dominance aggression; one case was dominance aggression (the owner was allowing the dog to be dominant); one case of 'unprovoked' biting turned out to be triggered by the odor of pizza sauce -- the dog had been kicked as a puppy by a pizza delivery kid -- corrected by enlisting male friends armed with pizza to knock on the door and immediately insert pizza into dog's mouth. You do need to understand it to do anything about it (cf. Beth's comments).
You may need to consult a professional behaviorist.
Al has a behavior problem (snapping at, even attacking other dogs, without warning or provocation) which began about age 2, and was quite a surprise because he'd been heretofore perfect. I do not understand the behavior, and so cannot correct it.
Could there be a connection between the biting, the barking, and the shock collar? Frustration or something?
Exercise? Tired dog = good dog....
We had a cat who would fall into a purring, hypnotic trance in your lap as you petted him, then snarl and bite your hand in an eyeblink(!). Never broke skin, but amazingly dramatic. We never got a clue about why; it was as unpredictable as his epileptic seizures. Mystery: Jekyl to Hyde back to Jekyl in an instant.
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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I want to add that a trained behaviorist is NOT the same as a "trainer." I could hang out my shingle tomorrow and call myself a dog trainer. And yes I could help you teach your dog to sit, stay, come, behave politely around guests, and refocus an otherwise well-behaved dog who gets cranked up over seeing other dogs/cats/squirrels/kids on bikes etc while out walking. But I could NOT help diagnose serious behavior issues because I am self-taught. And guess what? So are many trainers out there, or they've gone to a few seminars.
You want a behaviorist who specializes in dog aggression, someone who has some sort of college degree in animal behavior and has specialized in dogs. Someone who can read canine body language fluently and also is very good at sitting down and talking to the owner and piecing together what went wrong.
These sorts of specialists are hard to find and the best place to start is with your own vet or a large veterinary college.
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Permalink Reply by Priscilla, CARLY, and Frankie on
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Katy im not sure if this text is for me but i appreciate being able to jump in and be apart of this thread, since i was in need of answers .. thank you all for being here. I did put a call in to my vet today but i never heard back from him. I also ask the trainer who is working with Frankie for the therapy program were training for, if she new a behaviorist in town and she told me where to find one. I wonder what they charge ? Im not able to put $100.00's toward that at this time. So i may have to wait for a few months when i have more cash flow.
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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Markley on
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I know I'm going to get chastised for this. But this is a perfect case to use the methods Cesar uses. Your dog is a bully. How do you deal with bullies in real life? You stand up to them. You can't rationalize with a bully, you call them on it, and you win. I wouldn't suggest using his methods on your own, you will get bitten severely. I'd find a trainer that specializes in them, and ditch the shock collar. They are cruel, and enhance aggression. I had a husky mix one time that would growl at me every time I tried to move her to get into bed. One night she bit me. I grabbed her paw, bit it hard, and never had another problem with her again.
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Jennifer, I have twice strongly told off a dog (Jack) who tried to control a situation he had no right to control, when that situation was predictable and the motivation was clear. I knew the dog, knew the situation, was confident I understood his motivation. Once he was a young adult, playing too rough and bit me hard not paying attention to where is teeth were. The other occasion involved playing keep-away with found food in a park. In both circumstances, I held him short (by scruff or collar) and briefly and loudly scolded him.
This was a sane, predictable dog doing a very understandable thing where he thought he could just blow me off.
In this case, though, Colleen is talking about a dog behaving erratically, out of the blue. I think even Caesar woudl say you never punish behavior when you don't know the motive. I've seen Caesar use classical counter conditioning and diversion to counteract biting at least as often (probably more so) than I've seen him use his more controversial methods. I like Caesar, but even he only uses dominance methods against dogs he's clearly determined (in his own mind, anyway) are trying to control a person. He does not use dominance methods for food-guarding, for instance.
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Permalink Reply by Colleen Osborne on
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My dog doesn’t bite all the time – he does periodically bit (we’ve gone up to three weeks without an attack). He doesn’t display aggressive behavior most of the time. It is the randomness of the attacks that has me concerned because I can’t figure out the trigger for the aggression. He instantly goes from calmly sitting/laying down while getting pet to instantly attacking. Other times he is perfectly fine being pet. It’s the unpredictability of the attacks that makes the situation very stressful and dangerous.
As for the shock collar, we keep it on level one (very gentle, we’ve tested it) and has been working great. The collar allows us to correct his when his barking becomes an issue. We always praise him for alerting us to whatever issues he detects, tell “Quiet”, then correct him if and only if he doesn’t stop barking after the command. The correction he gets in minimal but is enough to remind him he isn’t listening. The collar, when used correctly, is a great tool. He gets a shock much lower than those used with invisible fences. I would never use a tool that would harm my dog and only use the collar for barking behavior. My dog runs when barking to avoid correction – this allows him to associate the correction with barking after the command instead of me correcting him after he stops barking (by the time I get to him). He does not get a correction for the collar for any other behavior corrections.
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I know this is probably an odd suggestion...but have you heard of rage syndrome? I'm sure it's unlikely but it could be something to consider.
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Colleen, don't know if this applies to your dog, but there is a neurological condition called "Rage Syndrome" and it came to mind in reading your description. It is not common, but you may want to look into that. Good luck. I had not seen Jane's post.... I agree it's worth looking into, has anyone ever heard of this in Corgis?
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While it's mostly associated with English Springer Spaniels, I do believe it's been documented in several other breeds. I think it's most noticeable in ESS's not only because of the apparent severity in some lines, but also because they are otherwise very sweet and soft dogs so the difference is striking.
We have a neighbor with a Golden in the late stages of cancer (she's an older dog). The cancer spread to her brain, and this otherwise docile sweet dog has seizures where she will attack them if they approach. In her case, she is clearly seizing but mini-seizures can sometimes cause short outbursts in some dogs.
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I once evaluated a young Alaskan Malamute for Rage Syndrome. The only way I could do this was to take the dog to my home and keep him for a week. I was wondering if anyone had documented the disorder in Corgis ( believed to be genetic). A brain tumor can affect behavior that way too.
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