Unlocking the Frisbeesphere - Update 04 July
OH MY GOD! Oh my god. The greatest news. Ace, my husband and I all went down to the dog park. It was pouring rain, no breeze. There were no dogs in the area so we decided to pack up and head for home. While walking to the tram stop, my husband showed the lightweight cloth frisbee that arrived in the post at his work today. We decided we'd have one last hurrah of throwing a disc around before we officially retired Ace from the 'sport'.
Lo and behold, we chucked it out in front of us... and ACE CAUGHT IT OUT OF THE AIR. We are talking like, seasoned Disc Dog Championship 2012 catch. It was amazing. Despite the rain weighing it down, the frisbee was so lightweight that it simply floated along in the air long enough for Ace to give chase and hunt it down. It was amazing. It's like everything that I had been working on in separate pieces - the catch, the chase, the retrieve - all came together in to one glorious moment. When he caught it, I went ballistic and showered him with praise. We threw it around a couple more times, Ace gave chase every time (but wasn't so lucky with catching). It was SO awesome to see this dog who notoriously doesn't care about toys, hunt down a Frisbee while it soars through the air.
I am so proud of my little gray potato. Ace ALWAYS surprises me. I wish I had taken video of the moment. It was magical!
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It's been a few days now since I have embarked on the Frisbee journey with Ace. I'd have to say that it largely feels like treading water. A dog like him who is highly UN-motivated by toys is really tough in a sport like disc dogging. Ace can catch like nobody's business, and his retrieve is wonderful. But he just won't track the disc worth a damn. No matter what rewards lie in store for him, no matter how much frenziness I manage to create, Ace isn't chomping at the bit to get at the disc. I am afraid my dreams of miraculously creating a Frisbee dog out of He Who Cares Not for Toys are rapidly waning.
I've watched about 50+ videos now on teaching Frisbee to absolute beginner dogs. And on every video there is the "short distance throws" bit, and that's where Ace just stalls out. These dogs, these JRTs, Borders, Aussies, ACDs... they all WANT that disc in their mouths. When going on the 'around', they're actively hunting down the disc's location with their eyes. When Ace does his around, he just kinda stares off into space. I let him play tug briefly to get his heart rate and play drive up, but he just doesn't care enough about the disc.
Admitting defeat is something I hate to do. Particularly as someone who wants to do into dog training professionally. So maybe I need someone else to tell me when to stop, but also when to keep going? I'm kind of in a weird gray area right now. Ace can catch floated discs like a champ, but it's looking more and more unlikely that he'll ever run out and chase a disc down with his lack of enthusiasm. Is this the point where I should just say, Okay, let's stop?
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As some of you may know by now, Ace has been particularly challenging to me with regards to play. Be it with toys or humans, he has always had a very noticeable lack of interest in the subject. It took me close to 8 months to get him to Fetch. Not because he's stubborn, or would chase the ball and then not return, or any of the usual issues one might have with Fetch. No, he was just completely avoiding it. In the end, religiously doing a round of Fetch for morsels of his raw dinner was the only thing that finally made him realize, Fetch isn't so bad. Now he'll willingly go out and retrieve for me. But is he doing it because it's fun? Heck no. It's because I'll reward him with food.
Being the masochistic aspiring dog trainer that I am, I decided my next play activity du jour would be Frisbee. Yeah, I know. Frisbee is something I think a lot of dog owners take for granted, and sometimes train incorrectly. Dogs can seriously hurt themselves during it when jumping excessively towards a vertical angle. Long-backed dogs like Corgis aren't wholly suited to the sport. With that in mind, I set out to teach Ace this well-beloved and totally awesome looking sport correctly.
It has been a nightmare. The usual tricks of making a dog interested in a Frisbee (feeding him out of it, smearing it with soft cheese, waving it around like crazy with Happy Voice) just don't work on Ace. He would rather sit by the window and watch the grass grow. Ace is such a peculiar dog in so many ways. In situations where I expect dogs to freak out (thunderstorms, bumpy car rides, baths, vacuum cleaners), Ace actually LOVES them. On the other hand, stuff like tennis balls and chewy Frisbees mean nothing.
But today... today, a lightbulb kinda-sorta-maybe went on in that little head of his. Using his raw dinner as a reward, since tugging the Frisbee is hardly enjoyable, I managed to make Ace pursue and grab several "rollers" - Frisbees rolled along the ground. And the crowning moment at the end of the day - in our apartment hallway, he snatched it out of the air after I floated it while he ran towards me. For a usual dog, it would be a tiny victory. For Ace, it deserved a slice of pig's ear and herding the cats (something we usually forbid). Now he sleeps happily on the floor, at my feet, with a poochy tummy full of dinner. Hurray!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Anna Morelli on
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Good for you! All that time spent together, trying to figure each other out, is what's most precious in my eyes.
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Permalink Reply by Ludi on
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Thank you. :) Every time I think I've finally figured out Ace's quirks, he comes up with a new one. This dog will keep surprising me until my hair turns gray!
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Permalink Reply by steve smith on
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Keep at it and both of you have fun I think that is the idea
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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He may just have a very low prey drive--- unusual in a herding dog.
Have you tried this?
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Actually, his prey drive is very much intact. He will chase rocks, sticks, cat teaser toys, the cats themselves, bugs... he loves to chase! But when the chase is over, so is his interest in the object. He's soon 14 months old, and has never, ever played with a toy by himself. As soon as human manipulation of a toy is removed, Ace moves on.
That toy looks almost identical to a large-scale cat teaser I made for Ace. He LOVED it. But even when playing with it, he will get bored a lot sooner than you'd expect out of a dog. He's so peculiar in this aspect. Like I said before, I got him at 16 weeks. I think that he did not have sufficient one-on-one play time with humans and toys to "learn" how to play. I've had to teach him every thing he knows in this arena.
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Permalink Reply by Rachael & Waffle on
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When you word it this way, I can relate. Waffle is JUST LIKE Ace, I guess, in regards to toys. He will not play with them by himself. He needs a human moving it for him or else he loses interest. Even with his favorite toys, he gets bored very fast. I've always attributed it to him being too damn smart and therefore easily bored and not easily fooled.
He will play tug like a champ until he wears himself out, though... but only with the ChuckIt! Flying Squirrel. No other toy is suitable.
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Your Waffle is very smart and we like to hear the stories
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Hah, it seems Ace is learning from his Internet mentor Waffle. >:D
Ace will tug, but again - I had to teach it to him. It was such a pain in the butt to have to use food rewards to teach play activities. It broke the natural rhythm of play but there was really no other way to get Ace to even look in the toy's direction.
I'll be getting a Border Collie some time this autumn, and this time my husband isn't going to have the option of choosing a puppy based on coat color. I told him the only thing that we'll take into consideration is the dog's personality and affinity for toys. A toy-motivated puppy can make training SO much easier. I've paid my dues to the Difficult Dog Club with Ace. I need a vacation!
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You will experience the opposite end of the spectrum, that's for sure! " Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it" comes to mind... I don't know anybody who would describe a Border Collie in a pet situation as a vacation. They are a highly intelligent breed with a serious need for a job and the activity level and mental attitude to match the task they were bred to do. Better put your running shoes on! :-D
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A dog who is biddable and lives to work will be a vacation compared to Mr. Ace Grumpypants, who lets me know very obviously when he's done "mentally" for the day. Compared to the BCs I have had the pleasure of meeting and spending days with, Ace is definitely sluggish in picking things up, and he's still a very intelligent and astute little dude. BCs are just on the next level, I think, and it's what I need. Since I plan to go into dog training as a career, I figure I'll benefit from exploring life with a dog who is probably smarter than myself!
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Anna is so right! Border Collies are a whole different critter. Don't get me wrong, some are relatively laid back but many are wired "wrong" according to the conventional wisdom of pet ownership (but totally right for their job).
So, for example, if one time when you are teaching "sit" you have your left hand at your side, and the next you have it in front of your stomach, the Border Collie might get very worked up trying to figure out what THIS version of "sit" means. If if they sat the first time facing 1 o'clock and now you try to convince them that you want them to face 12 o'clock, some will get frantic. Or so I've heard. They tend to be acutely aware of small variations in body langue and sound compared to other dogs. They are bred to follow subtle cues at very long distances, and also to work large tracts of land on their own. I adore BC's, they are my favorite breed, but I don't think I can manage one. So be careful in your breeder search, be upfront on what you need, and if you haven't worked with any maybe see if a breeder will let you work one of her young dogs to see what it's like. They are not for everyone!
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