Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Sam Tsang on July 5, 2012 at 9:29pm

No one is being harsh here, what's done is done, what's done can also be repeated, that's why it's important not to repeat the same mistake.

Melissa, your reasons for breeding is very common, it is only human nature for us to want more positive things in our lives. 

Here's a great article on the Myth of "champion blood line" by a breeder in your neck of the woods.

Finding the right breeder / mentor is the key in proper education. Ludi and Beth both brought a lot of good points, true education can only happen when one is willing to teach and one is ready to be taught. If you have other specific questions, we'll be glad to answer them.

Permalink Reply by Anna Morelli on July 5, 2012 at 10:57pm

Hmmmm... lots of interesting posts that go beyond tail or no tail, which I previously addressed.  Now it's about breeding or not breeding and I mostly feel like Beth. I feel anyone breeding should do the required testing appropriate to their breed (any breed Club will list these) because no one should spread disease, causing problems for dogs and owners which can be painful, expensive to deal with and heartbreaking.

The second consideration should be can I keep each puppy however long it may take to find it a good home and can I take that dog back if, in spite of my best judgement, it loses its home down the line?  If the answer to these questions is no, one should not breed. The shelters are full of purebred throwaways someone paid good money for and we don't need to contribute to that.

As for reputable breeders, that term is bantered around and means different things to different people. In particular I have seen many breeders who show dogs do all kinds of underhanded things to win with those dogs. A dog who is not being shown can be of very good quality and sometimes even better than some "show quality" dogs I've seen.

In addition, I've seen breeders breed all kinds of dogs who had the necessary breed clearances, but were otherwise unhealthy (skin problems, allergies, thyroid problems, breeding problems, poor mothering of pups, repeated cesarean whelpings and I could go on and on) in addition I've seen good looking dogs with terrible temperaments bred and Champion males bred to mediocre females because the name of the male sold the pups.

All considered, unless I had first hand knowledge of the breeder over a long period of time, I'd take my chances with one of Melissa's pups if I was looking for a family pet.  You can build on that base and add all the rest if it pleases you.

Melissa, if you decide to become a more serious breeder, keep the things you value now in mind ( personality and general health) they beat winning in any sport any day and I've had Champions, obedience title holders and working dogs, so this is not about sour grapes.  Enjoy your pups.

Permalink Reply by Rachael McClanahan on July 6, 2012 at 10:28am

Very well said!!

I'm slowly working towards being a breeder, but as there are absolutely no established breeders in my area all of my correspondence has been through email & phone calls, and any "quality" pups would have to be shipped to me. So I very  much sympathize with her.  Even great breeders had to start somewhere. 

Permalink Reply by Melissa on July 6, 2012 at 2:18am

My Pups <3

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Permalink Reply by Snickmom on July 6, 2012 at 10:41am

squeee

Permalink Reply by Beth on July 6, 2012 at 6:14pm

Oh they are so cute!  :-)   Mom looks content with them.

Permalink Reply by Geri & Sidney on July 6, 2012 at 3:45am

To answer your main question...Sidney is a Pembroke who was not docked. He's got a beautiful fox-like tail that he carries over his back. His tail has never been a problem for him. He's gone sheep herding, swimming and hiking, and now he's training in rally. His tail has never caused him injury or even gotten messy. He never has a problem with "poopy pants" that I've seen sometimes addressed here. If I could I would definitely get another tailed Pem. When the time comes to add another corgi to the family I will try to find a breeder who is willing to set aside a pup and leave the tail on for me.

Permalink Reply by Jane on July 6, 2012 at 8:39am

I agree that dogs that are not perfect conformation specimens could still positively contribute to the gene pool, but unless a a person can actually point out their dogs' assets and their flaws, they should not be breeding IMO. You shouldn't just say well one is tall and light, the other is heavy and low, let's breed them together and hope for something in the middle. How are they built structurally? Does one's assets complement the other's flaws? Will you get a BETTER dog out of this mating? And at the very, very least the dogs should have been health tested. 

 

I have a breeder near me who focuses on the natural bob tail, and none of her dogs have any issues with their tails. Nor have I ever heard of any other tailed pembrokes having problems. That is one isolated incident with your breeder and I would not take their word as gospel.

Permalink Reply by Lemmy Winks on July 6, 2012 at 11:28am

My aunt use to dock tails by tying an elastic band around so it would die off.
Tail docking, though largely cosmetic today, is originally to prevent the tails from being stepped on when herding.
I've never heard about tails getting infected...that sounds odd to me.
Which ever you choose to do, you'll need to decide soon, while the tails still have very little nerve endings in them.
Or if you want to dock but feel uncomfortable you can go to your vet. But decide soon. A corgi is a corgi tail or nub ^_^

Permalink Reply by Anna Morelli on July 6, 2012 at 1:06pm

Lemmy, I am not a Corgi expert, but it makes no sense to me that tails would be cut off to prevent a herding dog from getting the tail stepped on.  It would tale a very careful and agile cow to try and step on a mowing Corgi's tail.  Cows will more likely kick, which is why being a dwarf breed and low to the ground was quite the advantage. And what about Cardigans? Only Pembrokes were in edangered by their tails? The tail is part of the spine and actually an advantage to the dog, assisting in maintaining balance, especially in quick turns and at high speed.

Tail docking is cosmetic except in breeds that were engaged in fighting.  In these breeds ears were cropped because they bleed a lot if the ear gets torn, and tails docked because a dog could be grabbed by the tail, putting him at risk in the fight. These reasons do not apply today.  As Ludi said, docking is mostly prohibited in the  European Union and I wish it was here too. It is a form of mutilation.

Permalink Reply by Ludi on July 6, 2012 at 1:21pm

I think it might have just been the "style" in many areas with working sheepdogs. I suppose they wanted to pre-empt any injury to the tail/spinal cord by docking them when they knew the dog would be working in close quarters with heavier livestock.

But I digress, it's a completely pointless practice now. I'm glad to be in the EU where it has been prohibited, along with other unsightly practices like hacking slivers off a dog's ears to crop them.

Permalink Reply by Lemmy Winks on July 6, 2012 at 2:09pm

Corgis are contact (I think that was the word) herders, they get right up and close, which is why tails were docked (historically) to prevent accidents from happening which is why I wrote what I did, whether its needed today or not....that's a different debate; I agree with tails being a big advantge >_> wish someone would tell Pilot tails are meant for balance and not sacking people and sending cups flying lol.
There's good arguments to both sides, and I've seen both sides, and give both equal respect, I'd never argue someones personal feelings on the matter.
I feel like Melissa should do whats she is doing: read every ones advice/opinion, do research and decide for herself what she feels is the right move.

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