New Attitude at the Dog Park
Let me start by giving a little background. Stanley is about 16 months old now. We've had him since he was 2 months old. He's been very well socialized having gone through two group training classes, monthly visits to a dog daycare and frequent trips to the dog parks. Throughout this time, Stanley's been great at the dog park. He's always been playful and confident and mixes it up with dogs of all sizes. However, in the last few weeks, his behavior at the dog park has not been the greatest. His first annoying behavior is what I guess is herding instincts kicking in. He chases after dogs barking the whole time or he'll bark at dogs that are playing together. For the first 13 months or so, he NEVER barked at the dog park. So I find this new behavior surprising and a bit annoying. However, it doesn't concern me too much as long as the other dogs and dog owners are ok with it. But the other behavior I've noticed is the growling and snarling that tends to escalate out of nowhere when he plays with some dogs. He'll be playing and wrestling just fine but then he'll start to get more vocal with grumbles and growls and his lips curl up to show his teeth and the play gets too rough for my liking. At this point, we usually pull him away from the other dog and leash him up for a time out. As a first time dog owner, I'm not as familiar with dog interactions as some and it's hard for me to gauge if this is normal play or if it's escalating to a bad place. What's the best way to determine if the play is too aggressive and what's the best way to correct the behavior? I'll probably consult the dog trainer but was looking for advice from the Corgi community :)
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by christy fry on
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If your instincts are saying uh-oh this needs to stop then it probaly does raised lips and growling are very clear signals to another animal to back-up. So it sounds like you've got a good handle on it with the time outs. =)
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Permalink Reply by Sam Tsang on
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I share your concern as well, every corgi is different, some have a strong personality that won't back down, some are very submissive and will avoid confrontation. Our Mocha loves to play, but he will not back down when challenge, some dogs take turn to be the winner, but Mocha will not back down and that gets him in trouble. When you see lips curl back, it is a good sign to remove him from the situation and walk away, depending on the other owner, leaving may be a better option.
I get embarrassed when Vienna herd the other dogs at the park, he means no harm, no nipping, just bark at other dogs who enjoy a game of chase, if you've watched a video of corgis at work, you may find lots of similar action. Sometimes i think corgis are often misunderstood at the dog park, due to a lack of tail, it sends a mix signal to other dogs.
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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At 16 months, Stanley is for the first time starting to show some of his adult behaviors (typically between 18 months and 2 years is when true adult behaviors start to show regularly in dog-to-dog interactions). So you will definitely see changes.
It is really hard to judge the growling and snarling without seeing it. Mine do a lot of teeth-gnashing when they play-fight and both have lips pulled back to show all their teeth, but it's clear they are playing. I really should try to get video so I can put it up, but their wrestling matches are short and hard to film. When a dog is being aggressive the corners of his mouth push forward a bit.
Here's a good picture of a dog showing it's teeth in an aggressive way:
http://www.dogstardaily.com/photos/upping-ante
Compared to dogs showing teeth in a playful way:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2399/1862325029_84ad28fca0.jpg
Notice how the lips pull back in the play-fight and pucker forward in the real deal.
It can be tough to tell and sometimes real play will go too far and escalate into a fight, but if all the dogs are friends and well-socialized, usually what happens is if one gets too rough, the other will squeal and the rough dog will tone it down a notch.
When they are playing they will usually break it off frequently, and nuzzle at each other briefly or "shake it off" the way they would shake after a bath, before going back at it. Also if there is never any blood, that's a good sign it's play. If dogs mean to hurt each other, they do.
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Permalink Reply by Beauty and the Beast on
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Thank you so much for the pictures!
I would not know the difference until it's too late.
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Permalink Reply by Joanna Kimball on
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That's two of mine playing. They were making HORRIBLE noises and carrying on but having the time of their lives.
I don't want to say that what you're seeing is automatically and without a doubt normal, but dogs playing normally do curl lips and make bad noises.
His age is extremely typical for no longer tolerating what he perceives to be bad behavior, so that's the other option for what you're seeing; he's telling the other dogs to settle down.
I think it's fine for you to intervene, but I don't like the thought of physically dragging him away. Dogs need to learn how to finish interactions, even negative ones, in a way that avoids harm to both of them. If they are constantly interrupted in the middle of the discussion, they get madder and madder and next time it might not be so polite a discussion. If he were in my yard, I'd let them finish it even if it got heated, but in a dog park you have lots of owners who don't know the normal way dogs behave and who would not tolerate what looks and sounds like a big fight.
So try to figure out a different way to redirect him rather than drag him away. If you can train him to drop what he's doing and come back to you to check in, then return to the dog, it'll defuse the behavior without escalating the tension. That's a lot healthier than him thinking that he gets punished for talking to other dogs and maybe he ought to just get the job done next time by biting first and asking questions later.
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"...in a dog park you have lots of owners who don't know the normal way dogs behave and who would not tolerate what looks and sounds like a big fight."
Yes, that is why we prefer to let our dogs play in small groups with dogs that we see regularly. Of course not everyone has that luxury.
Ours were playing with a very submissive female lab that we see often enough, and a new dog: a six-month-old lab/pit bull mix. The puppy was over-exuberant and rude, literally running over the tops of everyone. Maddie snarked at her once or twice to no avail, and then Jack just turned around and gave a huge yap/air snap and after that she behaved herself.
I turned to the pup's owner, half-expecting to have to give a big long explanation that my dog was not aggressive, but he pleasantly surprised me by saying "It's about time someone put her in her place; the other dogs she plays with let her get away with that."
Phew.
Anyhow, I agree that our interruptions can sometimes worsen the behavior, because if they are being corrected for normal behavior it can really confuse the signals they are giving each other. My male can be dominant to a point with other dogs, but he's not a fighter and if things escalate beyond his comfort level he comes over and sits in front of me. I'm not sure if that's happenstance or a by-product of how he was raised, but it does avoid potential fights.
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Permalink Reply by Alice on
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Finnigan is reaching that age where he's coming into his own. We took him to the dog park for the first time in 3 months and every time we go there is always that one dog that singles him out and bullies him. It's always a much larger dog (Boxer, Dane, Husky) and he rolls over submissively only to have the big bully jump on his tummy. Often the owners are oblivious or just don't care because it's not their dog that's yelping so we have to intervene and rescue our boy. This time, as soon as we walked in a Doberman decided it was his day to be the bully and he ran up and nipped Finn. The first couple times he ignored it and kept walking beside me but the Doberman continued to sneak up on him and bite him so finally Finn turned and snarled and told him that was enough. This went on a couple more times and the Doberman was not taking the hint so I stepped in and the owner finally leashed his dog and left. I was so proud that Finn didn't just roll over and take it and didn't start a fight either. He simply told the dog he wasn't going stand for that. I was also surprised that Finn actually listened to me and did what I told him. Normally he is just so excited he'll pay attention to everything except my husband and I. He's becoming a big boy and a better behaved dog and I'm proud of him.
By the way Joanna, that's a great picture!
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Shiro is 11 months old and he's been showing this behavior since the day I got him. He actually used to snarl and bare teeth way worse, but my puppy class trainer explained that he was just playing. He'll still bark a lot at a dog park if there's a dog that is not interested in him. He usually picks ones that tries to stay away or hide between their owners feet. He'll bark and launch and bow inviting to play and sometimes it's too much. If the dog's owner seems concerned (or worse trying to pull Shiro away) I tell "leave it" and "come". After a few times he'll find someone else to play with.
His herding instincts are very strong too and he tries to chase other dogs and nip them if they're slow.
Because he's so outgoing I take him to a part with small dogs only or with 1-2 big dogs that we know.
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