What did Corgis look like?
So I just watched the "Purebreed Dogs Exposed" video that Sam posted awhile back and it got me to thinking: What have our wonderful little corgis looked like? I seem to remember a member here posting something about corgi's having slightly longer legs only about 50 years ago...
Did anyone have links or pictures they might want to share? That and anything that might open up discussion about what kinds of problems are being accidentally bread into the breed are also welcome - but please, this is just out of my own curiosity, I don't want to see any fights. :)
Did anyone have links or pictures they might want to share? That and anything that might open up discussion about what kinds of problems are being accidentally bread into the breed are also welcome - but please, this is just out of my own curiosity, I don't want to see any fights. :)
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Lucy & Ricky (Wendy/Jack ) on
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This 2009 Corgi is beautiful example of a Pembroke with ample stifle, as opposed to the 1929 champion who has almost a straight stifle. I'd put my money on this "short" 2009 CH to be a great mover with sound structure. I am sure that this BOB is not nearly as short-legged as his grooming makes him appear. Have a look at his rear legs. This is more about grooming than breeding.
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Permalink Reply by Joanna Kimball on
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The 2009 Pembroke is Hedy, who has a herding title in addition to her many ring recognitions.
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Hedy is a knockout with a herding title to boot! Thanks for the information about her. This length of leg is rattling lots of cages. For me, it's troubling to see so much misinformation posted by "experts." What do you think of all this? Maybe I'm just having a case of blue meanies.
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Permalink Reply by Nicole on
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Oh, what an interesting topic! I never knew that Corgis had changed so much in such a short time. My Gonzo doesn't look like most Corgis - in the photo posted by Beth of the 2009 BOB winner at the National Specialty, that Corgi seems to have a very low chest between his front legs. Gonzo's chest doesn't go so low. Maybe it's shorter fur, or maybe he's just little.
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Permalink Reply by Jessica on
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I don't know what it is Sam - but I love old pictures of the Queen with her Corgwyn. Thanks for adding these!!
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Permalink Reply by Gromit, Sparkle, and Doug on
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About 12 years ago I saw a couple of Corgis at an agility contest and noticed that the dogs looked more like the Corgis I'd seen in pictures dating from the 1950s. The people with the dogs at the agility contest told me they lived on a ranch and had been breeding their own Corgis as working dogs for years. Without the intent to show and follow style trends I suspected that their dogs were really sort of a time capsule of Corgi conformation. Just my theory though; what I know about breeding and showing dogs wouldn't fill a thimble.
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That's very unlikely.
Dogs tend to revert to the generic. Legs get longer (or shorter), faces get longer and plainer, bodies get cobbier. What you were seeing was the result of not breeding to any conformational standard, and it's what happens to virtually all "pet bred" Pembrokes (or Cardigans, or Bassets, etc.).
If I stopped rigidly selecting for conformation and breed type and just let my Cardigans breed, I'd have longer-legged short-bodied dogs within just a few generations. It's actually really tough to keep the breeds the way they should be.
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Ah, very interesting, Joanna. Thank you!
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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People will get what they breed for, if they have a program. If they are breeding working dogs, they are probably breeding more on working ability than on conformation, as long as the dog is conformed in such a way as to be sound.
If you have some time one day, google some conformation Quarter Horses and then look at working cow Quarter Horses on ranches. Totally different look altogether. Both groups have something of a goal in mind, but for the working cow pony his "cow' is the single most important thing, and if he's conformed nicely enough to be sound they are happy. With the conformation Quarter Horse, they go for a certain look, and the horses tend to be massive with tiny tiny little feet.... I don't get it, honestly, as they look like they'll topple over, but there you have it.
For a dog world example, look at the Border Collies you see on sheep trials from England, then look in the ring. There are not as many working Corgis out there as Border Collies, so you don't see it as much, but they do exist. I have heard that they are fairly popular on commercial feed lots, for example, where they are great at pen work.
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Well, you should know that Pedigree Dogs Exposed's "look at breeds change dramatically over time" claim is totally false; show dogs of the breeds they pointed to (Bulldog, Basset, Bull Terrier) look pretty much the same now as they did in the 40s.
Here's a Pem from 60 years ago:
The very, very early Pems (in the 20s) were often longer-legged, but there's a difference between what they HAD and what they WANTED. They didn't look at what they had and think they were done. The bitch I posted above is linebred on Crymmych President; you can see that she's very much the modern type (she probably has shorter legs than many of the Pems on this site!).
The early kennels - Rozavel, Pantyblaidd, etc. - brought the Pem pretty close to what it looks like now.
In Cardigans, I think we started with better dogs than the Pem people did, so there wasn't as big a transition from the 20s to the 40s. In terms of from the 50s until now, there are still breeders who span that entire time. They'll be very honest about how they've seen the breed change and I think they're pretty unanimous that it's for the better. We have a sounder, stronger dog now than was common in the early part of the century, though the outstanding dogs from back then would be very much at home in the show ring now. If you look at Kentwood Cymro here: http://www.cardicommentary.de/Kennelstories/kentwood.htm, he would be seen as a very correct, lovely, moderate dog in 2010.
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Thanks for the extra info, Joanna. More fun reading and Corgi browsing. I've never watched "Pedigree Dogs Exposed" because I judged from the title that it would be intentionally biased to the negative and I dislike sensationalist "documentary" programs of that sort.
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