Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rachael & Waffle on February 18, 2011 at 11:41am

When you taught her to do those things, did you gradually wean treats out?  In general, once the dog learns how to do the trick without fail, you start giving her a treat every other time to get her used to the idea that she won't get a treat every time.  Then, after only a handful of every-other-times (you don't want her to realize that she only gets one on every other trick!), then you go two tricks without a treat, then 3, then 4.... But sometimes, you give her two or three treats in a row.  In psychology, it's called "variable ratio schedule", and using this to your advantage is, well, advantageous!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jennifer Markley on February 18, 2011 at 11:56am

I'm sorry I'm laughing, but this is exactly what Seanna does to me.  I never really knew what it was like to have a dog that actually thought for themself, until I got a corgi.  It's almost comical to me now after being together for almost 4 years, but oh, how we fought for the first 2.  I kinda learned to choose my battles (look at my pictures of the coffee table).  Seanna will choose what she listens to, and unless I get very angry, usually chooses not to listen.  Especially if there is nothing in it for her (food).  When she gets very bad, and she usually gets to a point where she keeps pushing it and pushing it, getting away with more and more--and when I feel it's time for me to get the upper hand again, I use the Nothing in Life is Free program.  A day or two of that, and she is back to being her sweet little caniving self.  This week we are losing the battle with "NO KITTY", as we all have spring fever and can't wait to get back outside and run around.  The poor cats are ready to retaliate.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Anna Morelli on February 18, 2011 at 12:41pm

It sounds like you  have a smart dog and have put time into training with good results, generally speaking.  With pups you do use a lot of treats, but studies have shown that intermittent reinforcement ( random treats ) gets better results than rewarding with treats every time. You need to vary the reward, sometimes just verbal praise, sometimes petting, or throwing a toy, sometimes going outside, or whatever the dog considers enjoyable.  You can reward the activity, or wait for the end of a sequence of commands. In other words YOU should not be so predictable!  Don't repeat and repeat a command, if the dog hears it and does not do it, help the dog give you the correct response.  Teach, rather than correct whenever possible.  This way you build a working relationship with the dog, where working with you becomes, in itself, pleasing (i.e.rewarding) to the dog.

As for not coming when she's sniffing.... there are circumstances when  dogs become deaf. Squirrels have the same side-effect  :-)   Hold on to that long line and practice calling her when she is engrossed in a smell, you can then give a tug, lots of praise and let her return to the smell.Look for her to respond to her name, before you give a command.  The name is to get her attention.  Dogs that are called all the time for no reason, children love to do  this, learn to ignore their name.

What's with you eating with the dog in your lap?!?

As for no fence, it will teach the dog it has a choice and animals like their freedom as much as people do, especially the smart, independent minded ones.  I would put up a fence or look into either an electric fence or radio fence, depending on your situation.  The dog's life may depend on it.

 

 

 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Kari & Quin on February 18, 2011 at 1:10pm

Ok, so... now she wont do any thing unless she thinks she is going to get a treat.  I tried playing ball and asking her to sit before I throw it and she just walks off ( little pain Haha)  I think she sees ball time as something completely different than sit and lay down time:(  I even gave her a treat and then asked her to sit again and then threw the ball and the next time I asked her to sit she walked away. so how do I integrate them ?  I will do the commands and start only giving her treats every now and then and then start to do other things instead of treats. Maybe then the two things will integrate themselves?  I guess you do have to be smarter than the dog to train the dog haha!?  

 

Oh and the eating thing  well we eat in front of the TV sometimes and my husband is a sucker, she doesnt jump up in my lap but, she will jump up in his every time he sits down with food and he likes it. what can I do:/

 

We are working on a fenced in run that will have a dogie door from the house into the pen other then that she will only be out with us, as the desert isn't a friendly place to a small dog even if it is fenced unless it has a roof and chain link up to the top, as the run will have. Snakes and coyotes did recognize boundaries. I also want to work on her not going out the door unless I say so.  but this time I will wean her off the treats faster :)  thanks for the help    

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Beth on February 18, 2011 at 1:30pm

Honestly if my dog refused to sit outside, I'd sit them myself (pull up slightly on collar, push down lightly on rump).   But it sounds like you've trained her to perform for a bribe, rather than rewarding her after she did what you want.

 

Once one of my dogs knows a command, I know longer train them with treat in hand.  I will do practice sessions in the house where I may ask for one command or may ask for twenty, or anywhere in between, and then after the dog is done we run to the treat counter for a reward . 

 

Intermittent reward means your dog might sometimes get a reward after 1 correct response, then next time after 5, then 3, then 1 again, then 7, then 2, and so on.  And every now and then they should get a jackpot reward of five or six tiny treats popped in their mouths right in a row.

 

On walks, sometimes have treats in your pockets (assuming there's no bears or anything) and sometimes don't, so again you can randomly reward.  Don't let the dog see whether or not you put treats in your pocket.

 

For recall, you need to rev up the excitement.  Use two people standing across a room (and eventually across a field). One holds the collar, the other goes a distance away with yummy treats, and calls "Quin! Come come come come!!!" in a happy, excited voice.  Once the dog starts straining to go, then release her.  The training partner should also have treats, and when she comes to you then you grab her collar and the training partner does the same thing.  You are building speed and excitement on recall.  Repeat this several times, and do it a few days a week.  After the first time or two, she does not need to see the treat in your hand any more.

 

On walks, use special treats like cheese or hot dogs.  Call her to you periodically just to give her treats and let her go have fun again.   I have one, though, who is totally deaf if she is chasing a furry creature. 

 

As far as her not liking to be touched, some dogs just don't like to be petted much.  One of my Corgis typically looks at us like we're crazy if we try to pet him, unless he's sleepy.  I wouldn't force the issue.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Beth on February 18, 2011 at 1:31pm

And by the way, don't assume she's being defiant when out on walks.   You must train at home, then train again (from scratch) out in the yard, then train again on walks, then train again in unfamiliar places.  Just because your dog knows that "sit" means "butt on the ground" inside the house does NOT mean she realizes it means the same thing outside.  Dogs don't always generalize well.   Train sit again outside as if she does not know what it means.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Kari & Quin on February 18, 2011 at 3:03pm

Thanks Beth,  really I have had a dog before:) but I never trained them like I want to this one.  Plus I never had trouble with them coming when called,  maybe I am just to... I don't know, my kids are grown and Quin is my "baby" haha my sisters think I am nuts and that I spoil her:/  well there you have it.  I will be more diligent.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Dora & Rocky on February 18, 2011 at 4:25pm

I also have problems with getting Rocky to do commands (but only outside) because as soon as we're outside, his attention is already about 5 blocks away. One tip my trainer gave me was that when we're still inside the house (right by the door), do a couple of commands with the dog. Once he's hitting those tricks dead on, let him outside but stay close to the door and have him do some simple commands for you again (sit, stay, down, etc.). Once he starts paying attention to you, you can go about what you want to do outside. Another tip my trainer gave me was that find a treat that your dog really, really, really, REALLY loves and only give those to him when he listens to you outside. Once you start weaning him from the treats and use something like a toy instead, get a new toy that he only gets to play with during training (if it's a toy that he gets to play with whenever he wants, he might not be interested in 'working' for that toy because he knows he can get it whenever he wants). Hope this helps!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jane on February 18, 2011 at 6:48pm

Have you tried using NILF (nothing in life is free)? I would google it and try implementing it, I bet it will help a lot if you stick with it. As Beth said it sounds like she is expecting a bribe rather than a reward. I also wouldn't let her eat on your lap or give her food while you're eating (I save a bite for my two, but they only get it once I'm finished).

 

My Henry isn't a very snuggly dog either, he will usually duck away if you try to pet his head and he isn't expecting it. I sort of inadvertently taught him to associate a certain word with petting, and he's much better about it. (Back story...he would sit on the back of the couch and I would pet his head, talking goofy and calling him fuzzy head...so now he associates "fuzzy head" with being pet...awesome command I know!) haha

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Skip Kennon on February 19, 2011 at 11:51am

I think you've received excellent advice on the training here.  Being a NYC dweller, by law our dogs are never off leash when outside, so the "come" thing is not as big an issue there.  As far as the in the house behavior of your dogs, I recognize it.  Both my spouse and I feed our corgis, but I am the sole brusher, the sole bather, the sole paw-hair clipper, the nail grinder (or clipper) and they don't like any of those activities.  They are suspicious when I call them and will look and see if I have anything in my hands that might groom them before they deign to approach me.  They'll sit at attention at my spouse's feet with just one "come."  With me, they investigate, feel the vibes in the room, and maybe the older will eventually jump up and put his head on my lap and settle in, then the younger one will come over and lie on top of my feet.  This is TV viewing bliss!  I, however, am both of their best friends at the time I'm preparing theirs or our dinners!  I love to quote Joe Garagiola as an emcee at the Westminster Dog Show a few years back: "Corgis, the Hoovers of the dog world.)  Food is the great motivator.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jennifer Markley on February 19, 2011 at 2:59pm

That's funny...I have a drawer where I keep all the grooming supplies, and whenever the dogs hear it open, they are GONE!! 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Kari & Quin on February 20, 2011 at 3:33pm

Thanks for all the input.  The grooming thing... my son told me "Mom that is why people have their dogs groomed"  so they don't hate us. Haha!!

• ▶ Reply