Positive-only training is NOT working!!!
When I got Selphie, I decided I was going to try positive only training techniques, clickers and praise and the like. Well, it's been almost 2 weeks and she hasn't learned anything! She still pottys all over the house (when we see her potty on the floor, we take her immediately to one of the 4 puppy pads we have spread around our 1 bedroom apartment and praise her... she doesn't seem to care, she will pee all over the house and poops right in front of the door) When she plays with our other dog, she's extremely rough, biting and snapping at him, constantly jumping on him, pulling his tail, biting his privates, biting his ears, he yelps and runs, trying to avoid her, he's not dominant and won't correct her unless she's biting him while he's chewing on a toy or bone. When he's in his crate eating or trying to take a nap, she will scratch and bite the door and sides of his crate, barking at him, growling. We've tried over and over to distract her with a squeaky toy or by calling her name... at first it worked, now she completely ignores us. She also growls and bites at us when we talk or pet her, when we pick her up she squirms and growls, trying to nip our hands. Clicker training is proving to not work at all, we've charged the clicker, but she loses interest in toys OR food after about 6 rounds, not even BEGINNING to learn anything before she gets bored and starts getting aggressive with us, nipping our hands, pawing, trying to get the treat without doing any work.
Peanut was trying to eat in peace in his crate a moment ago and she was pawng and chewing and barking at the bars, I kept placing her in front of her bowl and she'd just run over to the crate, I have tried sharply saying NO... doesn't phase her, in fact, she just barks back... finally I had to spank her, this immediately stopped her and she went to eat......... HELP?!
And now you see, I have lost hope in her being a therapy dog, she's just too much of a bully. Also, she's 9 weeks old, was with her brothers and sisters till she was 7.5 weeks old.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Kristy Watkins on
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Also, by spank, I meant sharp pat on the bottom ONE single time, I don't abuse my dogs.
Ans also, I HAVE signed her up for puppy classes, but they don't start for her until next week when she's 10 weeks old, that's their minimum age.
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Permalink Reply by Bev Levy on
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Lol, welcome to the world of a small dog bred to tell large cattle what to do! Don't give up, many of us have experienced the very tough minded personalities of some corgis. Training is all about timing and it takes practice. The various classes I have taken over the years have trained me more than my dogs. Your pup is very young and your patience is really needed. However, being positive does not mean that she should not be scolded. I use very dramatic (think the big stage) actions and sounds with them when they are young. Sparty needed that and Buffy and Izzy did not so I toned it down. I think it is best to have a safe place (room, exercise pen) not her crate, where she will be bored for a little while. I also recommend a leash in the house until she becomes more responsive to your voice. Also make sure she gets frequent walks (not too long at this age) excess energy accounts for a lot of bad behaviors. Try a puppy class too, it will really help you. Good luck!
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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Sounds to me like she has entirely too much freedom for such a young thing! When Jack was a puppy, he had run of the kitchen ONLY, and only if we were right there AND paying attention to him. If we were cooking, he was in his playpen. If we left the room, he was in his playpen.
If she is pottying in the house, it's because she has too much room to run around. She should not be loose unsupervised for long enough to have more than the occasional accident.
Also, don't use the puppy pads all over the house. You are confusing the heck out of her. Imagine trying to potty -train a child and using four or five different toilets. From her point of view, pottying has become some random activity that she can do here and here and over here, but NOT there or there or there. She should be taken outside to potty, and if that is absolutely not possible she should have one and only one potty spot inside, and that should only be if you plan on letting her potty inside indefinitely.
For times when you must leave her, such as when leaving the house, she should be penned or locked in a small area with papers spread around for emergencies. Neither praise nor scold her for using them and clean them up as soon as you return and go back to crate training.
If she is harrassing your other dog and he won't correct her, you may need to limit their time together to playtime until she is a bit older. It's not HER fault he won't correct her for playing too rough, and if he does not correct her, how does she know that it's wrong? She should NOT have access to his crate, and he needs safe areas where he can go and be in peace til they sort things out.
She is behaving like a perfectly normal puppy. When we introduced a second dog, she was penned to eat for the first several months we had her, and she was an adult.
Too much freedom = naughty puppies. :)
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Permalink Reply by Sam Tsang on
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Hi Kristy, no dogs are fully potty trained until the age of 9 months to a year. She is only 9 weeks old, her organs are not fully developed and mentally not mature enough. Be patient. Read and re-read these links, check the common mistakes that I mentioned, get rid of the puppy pads and clean up the soiled area properly. When she is not within your vision, put her in the crate, be consistent, on schedule.
Every dog's personality is different, some older dogs will discipline the younglings and some choose to walk away and perfectly fine with being the submissive one. When you find yourself frustrated and not seeing results, go get help now. Observe a few puppy classes in your area and enroll in one that you feel comfortable with. She will get socialization, exposure to strangers and dogs that will not tolerate her behavior. Learn the skill from your trainer and continue to train at home, practice makes perfect. Young dogs are notorious having short attention span, keep the training session short, there are treats, and there are treats to die for, find out her weakness and bribe her.
Take a deep breath, we've all been there and you'll get there in time :) Good luck!
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Thanks guys, I knew corgis were tough and smart, but i didn't expect Xena warrior princess tough. Also, I know she shouldn't be potty trained by now, I'm not upset with her for that, but it seems like she's purposefully NOT getting the hang of going to the pads, like we've shown her over and over and over and over again the pads when she potties, and still every time, will not even consider them when she goes.... Oh well, shes' still absolutely the most adorable brat I know >:/. And you're right about the freedom thing, boyfriend thinks it's mean to let her "howl it out" when she's confined to the bathroom or kitchen (carpet free zones).
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Permalink Reply by justine moeller on
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I feel your pain and what I am about to say will maybe give you some hope - and maybe make you want to lock yourself in a bathroom and cry! Haha!
We adopted Mickey from a shelter when he was 6-7 months old. He caught on very quickly about potty training, and now at 2 I have faith he wont go, except if he really has to poop and no one is there. We were very diligent, we took him outside every 1-2 hours when we first got him (this is a 6 month old, keep in mind so he really should have had a better handle on it but obviously the place where he was before never potty trained him) We gave treats and cookies when he peed. I will never forget how excited he was when he took his first poop and got a treat. He looked so embarrassed and nervous but as soon as we praised him he knew it was ok! We did not crate train him then (we have since and are glad we did) but we did take him out every single hour or two. He was 100 potty trained by a a year.
Walter, we got at 4 months and he was a nightmare!!!!!!! He is now a year and a half and until about 2-3 months ago we could not rely on him. We used a pee pee pad, which in retrospect I wish we had not. I would not use it on another puppy. Many do and have great success but we did not. He caught onto it right away, but it made the transition for peeing only outside much harder. Walter had to be taken out constantly, he would pee himself overnight and ALWAYS peed on the rug and carpets. He wouldnt last more than half an hour. We had him tested for UTI because it just didnt seem normal. He did not have one, he just peed A LOT! We cut down his water intake, no free access to water unsupervised and began spending a whole lot of time outside! I have a feeling he developed a little slower because now he finally has it! But it did take a lot of work. Now, he violently bangs his bum on the door when he has to go out... it is pretty comical.
We also gave too much space to our corgi, take the advice of the others and limit her space. You will not regret it. Time will fly by and you will have a housetrained girl with full and TOTAL reign of your place soon enough! :)
Do not feel like you are alone, some are easier to train. Stay outside until she does a peepee or poor and then praise her like there is no tomorrow. She WILL get it. If you insist on using the pee pads, just know that I wish I had not as I believe it really added some extra time into training, especially with a smaller dog like a corgi who wont be able to hold it as early as a larger dog. Good Luck! :)
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Kristy, When I got Sparty I thought I was really knowledgeable about training since my father bred beagles and my previous two dogs had been really easy to train. Sparty at 7 weeks immediately "kicked my Butt" so I laughed when I read your Xena comment and know just what you are talking about. After taking him to obedience classes a patient and smart trainer was able to help me see how easily he was manipulating me and with some work (on me) he became the star of the class. Your puppy is a cutie!
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So I just took her on a real long walk (long for her anyway, I stopped when she started whining and becoming afraid) and have now seperated peanut and she by a gate, which also limits her to the living room/kitchen area, which is one room. We're deciding where to put the one puppy pad and contemplating a "outside potty" schedule. We only are using the pads because she pees VERY frequently and with almost no warning, these little dollar coin sized spots, she'll be playing and suddenly squat, walking and suddenly squat, she doesn't sniff or circle when she pees so there's no warning, we were hoping she'd at least do all that on the pad.
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I would take her out every hour at this point and when she goes inside, take her out. You can say a firm NO when she goes, and then bring her outside to show where she should be going..even if she doesnt go again outside!! She will get it...hang in there!
The number one rule I think I was told that helped me sooo much was peeing will occur after switching activities. At this point that would mean, she lays down and then gets up - take her out. She plays with a toy and stop - take her out. She eats, take her out (right away...what goes in must come out! :) ) She runs around like crazy then stops - take her out. It is a lot of work but in a few weeks or months you will be so proud of what she has accomplished!
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Jack would stop and pee like that when playing a lot until he was much older, and therefore he was not allowed on carpeting. He was like a little kid who was so into playing he didn't want to bother to stop and pee.
I also agree that potty breaks need to be much more frequent than most of the training books I have seen recommend. A typical day with Jack as a pup was: Husband up in the morning, took puppy out to potty. Gave puppy breakfast while I got up.
I went down, took puppy out to potty, played with puppy and did short training til husband was done showering and came down to take over the playing. I went to shower, put puppy in pen while we both ate, took puppy out for last potty before work. Please note we have been awake for an hour and a half and puppy has already pottied three times! Puppy in playpen with newspapers while we went to work.
I came home at lunch, took puppy out, puppy ate while I cleaned up old papers and put down new ones (which puppy thought was a great game and would try to shred papers while I put them down). Tried to eat sandwich with one hand while prying puppy off my pants leg with other hand, puppy out again for potty, puppy back in pen while I went to work.
Home from work for day, puppy out to potty, playtime and/or walktime for puppy (outside, so more potty opportunities). Puppy in, puppy eats supper, puppy out to potty again. Puppy locked up while we make our own dinner. Puppy still locked up while we eat and puppy cries piteously that he is starving and neglected. Puppy out to potty, puppy playtime/training time, puppy out again, more puppy playtime. Puppy out one last time, and then in crate for bed.
So he was out whenever he stopped playing, stopped eating, woke from nap, had a frap session, etc. As Justine says, a good rule of thumb is anytime the activity changes, a potty break is due.
The other thing is that it seems to me Corgi pups are physically more mature than other pups and I don't know why. Not meaning they have bladder control, but meaning that other puppies I have had are awkward and trip a lot and fall down and hide behind you when they hear loud noises. We brought home Jack at 10 weeks and he could turn on a dime at full run, accurately leap onto things without missing his target, and was ready to march up the street to go exploring the second we put him down in the yard.They can be bold and forward and think the world revolves around them. Stay positive, don't be afraid to say "no" if you need to but instead try to limit her opportunities to be bad.
Good luck!
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Permalink Reply by Priscilla, CARLY, and Frankie on
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are you cleaning the pee off very well? when Carly was being house broke, if she smelled anything that resembled urine shed go again .. in that spot,... so i had to shampoo the area rug twice as i was potty training ....that helped us alot..
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Permalink Reply by Cindi & Twinkie on
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I agree with limiting her freedom. Below is a picture of Twinkie in her playpen. She spent A LOT of time in there and it saved her life, I'm sure of it. I also agree that she is very, very young. We weren't even allowed to have Twinks until she was 12 weeks because the breeder wanted to socialize her with the litter longer. Imagine saying about a human infant, "It been, like four months and its still not potty trained!" :) I'm sure she will turn into a lovely dog. She will need lots of attention and patience.
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