Corgi or Devil?
Hello everyone,
This is my first time posting on here. I have an eight month old tri color pembroke named Zeus. He is extremely cuddly and sweet, but he often gets a little rough when playing and then growls when you try to settle down and pet him. He will bite at your hand and, unfortunately, today he barked/lunged at me while playing and hit me in the face. His problem is that he tries to play but accidentally hurts you. I think it may be due to his still young age, but are there any training tips or advice? I also have three cats and they are not too fond of him because two are ten years old and the other is around fifteen and he wants to play with them while they are hissing and growling at him. He doesn't realize they are not playing. Surprisingly, the oldest cat tolerates him the most and will even let him lay beside her.
Thank you for any advice on training(?) him to leave the cats alone..will he just need to learn on his own because only one has her claws and it's the oldest? And will the overly rough playing just need to be worked on over time?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on
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I believe that you need to look up "nothing in life is free" It's sounds to me like Zeus has possible learned things that aren't good and may have to have some guidelines to follow to get better. This is a very good tool.
Do you have a crate that you can put him in if he's naughty and to give you a break? You may also want to have him on a leash in the house (only when you are there) so that you have a way to get him to his crate when he is doing these things. He needs to learn more appropriate play. It's not his age...
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Permalink Reply by Vicky Hay on
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Yup. Second both of those suggestions. And obedience training is huge. If you've already done the puppy training classes, you might want to consider a repeat performance. If not, do join up with a training group ASAP, and ask the person in charge for some pointers. You can usually find the name of a good obedience trainer from your vet.
Also...this is an off-the-wall guess, so take it for what you paid for it: if the cats are crabby, I wonder if he's learning the growling behavior from the cats? Dogs can learn some behaviors by modeling from other dogs, and of course as a puppy he doesn't realize those things aren't strange-smelling dogs. I'd use a crate and an X-pen to give the CATS a break, as well as the human. It sounds like all the members of this household would benefit from some periodic puppy breaks.Do you have at least two places in every room that the cats can get up on to evade the pooch? If not, get some cat gyms or boxes or tables or the like where they can get away in a single bound.
In the nipping dept.: I've had some luck with smaller puppies -- but never tried it on an 8-month-old, which is almost an adult -- by carrying on like a demented fool when the pup accidentally (or accidentally-on-purpose) nipped hard enough to offend. It requires a startled, loud EEEK or YOWWWW as an instant response, followed by a riff of melodramatic whinges and whines, as though you were mortally wounded. Puppies fall for this one fairly quickly, but an older dog, like an older kid, may be too smart for it. Could be worth trying, though... It takes a number of little dramas to make an impression, and you have to do it consistently every time the pup nips. But I'd guess that if 5 or 6 tries don't get through, that trick isn't going make it.
Another strategy that sometimes works along these lines, if the dog is not actually attacking or actively chomping down, is to let your hand go completely limp (without pulling away) and whine pathetically, "waaaaahhhhh don't bite meeeee, Zeus! rooooooowwwwoooooooooo." The dog will think you're crazy and so will your spouse (the cats already know that), but sometimes this has worked on puppies. Again: I've never tried it on a nearly grown dog.
If he barks and lunges at you as you describe happening today, STOP everything you're doing by way of interaction with the dog, back away, and make like a deep-freeze. Do not try to grab the dog, hit or kick the dog(!!), or wave your hands in the air. Do not yell. Do not turn your back to the dog. Back off and act, in silence, like you're SO offended you can't even speak.
Do be careful not to get your face too close to the dog until you've found a way to reform the nipping/biting behavior.
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Permalink Reply by Jay Vladoiu on
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Thanks Vicky and Jane, I do have a crate and a pen. Usually in the evening he gets put in the pen for a while to give me a break. I think his growling when playing is natural because he thinks the cats are legitimately playing with him and he just gets too hyped up when playing with me.
I have tried the yelp and it used to work but I think he has gotten smarter about it. My post made it seem like this happens often but it really doesn't happen that much. He can, most of the time, play enough and get tired and stop with no incident. And yes, the cats can get up on the table, desks, back of the couch, bed..and yes Zeus can get on the beds and on the couch but they can get away. The major thing is that the worst cat, a 17-pound male, fights with Zeus the most but then eggs him on to continue.
Thanks for the advice, I will be trying these ideas.
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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He needs to learn some patience. First, try yelping really loud if he accidentally hits you with his teeth. If he does NOT put his ears back and make "I'm sorry" faces at you, then it's not making an impression. The idea is not to punish him but let him know this hurts. The second his teeth make contact while playing, the game is over. Period. Walk away and ignore him for a few minutes.
Then start working on developing patience. Do a mini sit-stay before you throw a toy (seconds at this age). Teach him "wait" when you put down his food bowl. You will likely need to start with standing between him and the food. Put it down, make the stop sign gesture with your hand, say a stern "wait" in a deeper than normal voice, wait til he looks at your face, say "good boy!" and step away. Only do this once per feeding session and not every time. Gradually increase the length of the wait until you can count to 10 or so.
Do quick obedience sessions a dozen times a day or so. Sit for a treat, down to put the leash on. Whatever. Mix it up. do it during walks and play sessions. Again, at this young age, keep any stays very short, no more than a few seconds.
It may help to let him play with an older, well-mannered dog who is good at putting puppies in their place as well. Make sure he gets lots of structured walks and keep the play times short enough that he doesn't get overly worked up. Teach him "trade" and give him a treat when play is over and teach him an "enough" command.
Be patient. It takes some time. Honestly when Jack was about a year old he accidentally bit me when playing one too many times after months of working on being gentle. I gave him a very very stern lecture (basically told him I'd have his head if he ever bit me again and since I was mad and in pain I guess he believed me) and since he didn't get punishment very often it worked, but that was after months of groundwork.
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Yes, I agree. He has learned to sit, lay down, rollover, shake, and high five since we got him. We are working on stay, which he will do but still needs improving. He is very good with waiting to eat food and he will wait until I walk away or say he can have it.
As for playing with other dogs, he loves the dog park, but I wish I could get him there more. And we have been meaning to take him to an obedience class.
Thank you for the advice.
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Permalink Reply by Linda on
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Excellent advice from Jane and Beth. As for the cats, even declawed cats can give one hell of a hard smack. Years ago I had a declawed cat and she would let me have it at times and I swore she still had claws, no scratches but she hit quite hard. The cats will settle her down and she will learn to respect them. Not surprised the oldest one is the most tolerant. My Gemma does not like other cats (we have 3 total) and she is afraid of her own shadow but she loves the dogs. I was concerned last fall when we added Brady to our pack but she took to him and loves him just like she does Katie and Max when he was still with us.
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Yeah, I'd like one of them to smack just a little harder so he will learn to stop, but I guess eventually he will leave them alone. I think they will end up tolerating each other.
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Just thought of one m9re thing...depending on when he is "growling " I have had people tell me Wynn is growling when for him it's a communication that sounds like a growl but he's really saying something I just don't know what.
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'Like"!
If Ruby and Cassie are examples, corgis seem to do that more than many other breeds.
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Jack did that during his CGC test and my heart sank, thinking he'd fail because it sounded like he was growling at the tester. Luckily she knew Corgis and just laughed.
When I pet him in the morning, he puts on such a performance of grumbles, yodels, whines and not-growls that I tell him to "Sing me the song of your people!". lol
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I think sometimes it probably is just him talking to me.
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Brady and Katie both "talk" all the time especially when they want something. Katie has a series of grunts and grumbles, sounds like a bear cub. Brady starts with little grrrrs and then small yips, if you talk back to him he goes full vocal with yips, yaps and sounds like a little dog you can pick up and put in a purse, surely not a 35lb dog.
I would say if the cat is egging him on then the cat is trying to get him to play. I hear all the time that you shouldn't let the dogs chase the cats.....well somebody needs to tell the cats to stop egging on the dogs to chase them.
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