Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Joanna Kimball on December 28, 2009 at 4:56am

You need to consult a behaviorist who will come to your home and see him at his worst.

My read on it is that it's the most common problem in the dog world - a dog who thinks he's in charge, and gets extremely ticked off and punishes you when you don't treat him like the emperor he thinks he is. However, since I am not there I can't see if it's an insecure kind of thing or just a badass dog being a jerk.

The good news is that it's very fixable, and with a good behaviorist you should be able to say goodbye to most of his bad behavior. The bad news is that it's going to take a radical re-shaping of the entire way that you deal with him, and there is likely to be some objection from your husband. It's very flattering to have a dog protect you from all comers, and very few people can discipline it without mixed feelings.

This is a great example of the fact that neutering does not solve behavioral problems. It never has.

It would be very irresponsible of me to give you specific training advice since I've never seen the dog. But I want you to read over what you wrote and see what I see between the lines. This is a dog who is repeatedly punish-biting you, and you're giving him an excuse by saying that it must be that female nurses scared him. He acts like a dictator so you get him another subject to rule over, and excuse his behavior again by saying he's lonely. When he attacked you again tonight, you said he must not have seen you. He gets clothes on Halloween.

Trust me, he saw you (or heard you or smelled you), he's not lonely, he was not traumatized by nurses, and he hates clothes. He's just being an enormous tool. He's an angel outside because he can be the napoleon out there and get all the attention in the world. I guarantee you he'd bite somebody out there if he felt like it.

Again, you MUST get a behaviorist in to see what he's doing. But in the meantime there is no harm in starting a Nothing In Life Is Free program; a simple explanation is here: http://thedogdude.com/using-nothing-in-life-is-free-to-become-the-a...

NILIF is not "training." You're not going to be asking him to do some new thing or pushing on his butt or anything. PLEASE DO NOT DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT without talking to that behaviorist. It's a great way to get your face bitten. NILIF is a new way of living with the dog; it's a system of rules and boundaries. The best way I can explain it is that there are certain areas of life that are very meaningful to dogs. One area is anything that is like a passageway or an entrance or is small. Doors, hallways, kitchens all qualify. Whoever controls that small area is king. He should be looking to you for permission before he goes through any door, into any small area, into the kitchen, etc. And you should be able to tell him "no" with one raised eyebrow. The second area of power is the bed. That also means couches, chairs, anything soft. A dog in a proper family relationship moves aside for you immediately and without thinking. A dog who sees you coming should jump off the chair or couch or bed, or you should be able to tell him to do so with a hard look. The third area of power is food. Any dog should back off any piece of food (this includes toys) the moment you indicate interest in it. And the fourth is the dog's own body, specifically things like tails and feet and the top of the head and the muzzle. Dogs do not have to like you touching them there but they have to respect you enough to allow you.

It sounds to me like all four areas of power are entirely HIS, right? He protects his bed, his food, his body, and he owns the powerful areas of the house. Those are all the things you will have to change very deliberately. He is never allowed on the couch or bed, he needs to wait to go through doors, he's no longer allowed to just waltz into the kitchen or near food, and he needs to be polite and respectful about his food and toys. Don't try to train him; change the way YOU act. Take back your house and your husband. Be a bigger badass than he is.

And - I don't know how much more seriously I can say this - get a behaviorist to come to your home. NILIF can only go so far and he needs real training.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Mim on December 28, 2009 at 4:59am

Sorry you are going through this. You definitely need to consult a dog behaviourist.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Stephanie on December 28, 2009 at 6:54am

I just went through this with my puppy Goldy. She had bitten me twice and the vet twice - all drawing blood. My vet gave me the phone number of an animal behaviorist, but it was over two hundred dollars to have him come to the house, so I pulled up my big girl panties and changed my attitude with her.

Against all popular advice, I started bopping her on the nose when she bit me or even pretended like she was going to bite me (growling) and as I did it I said NO in a strong voice and put her in a sit. I also started clicker training with her so she could learn the RIGHT behaviors, the ones I wanted. It ended up going a lot like this most of the time - growl or snap, bop on the nose with a NO, sit, click, treat. I also correct her when she gets nasty with Bear. If you're not prepared to put your hand near his face, because he may bite you, attach a leash and go back to the "stay with me all the time" method, so the leash will work as your correcting method and you don't have to reach down to him.

If you have the money for a behaviorist, by all means, contact one and your vet probably has a number, I just didn't have the money during the holiday season. So I changed my attitude, much cheaper.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Beth on December 28, 2009 at 7:09am

I agree completely with what Joanna said. NILIF is not a big risk because it will help a dominant dog, but is one of the few methods that ALSO helps a fearful dog. Ask your vet for a good behaviorist, one who will deal with aggressive dogs (they all should, but not all do) and one who uses primarily positive methods for routine training.

It also sounds to me like your dog thinks he is the top banana. While Joanna is correct that it is impossible to be sure from here, it sounds as if he is correcting you. He is warning you that you have crossed his boundaries and correcting you for it. You may read online suggestions to do alpha rolls, but except for under the closest supervision of a very experienced trainer, that is a great way to get badly bitten and end up with a dog who is worse off than when you started. Besides, we are reading your description of events, and while honest it is of course told through your interpretation of what happened, so there is still a chance it's not dominance and is something else.

I am sorry you are going through this. When Joanna mentions controlling doorways, many people interpret this as "you must go through the door first before the dog" but you can do this without truly controlling the doorway. Because of range of motion problems in my neck and not liking anything tripping me from behind, I send my dogs through doors first, but they will "wait" if I tell them wait and go through at my invitation. Who goes first is not so important as the concept that they exit (or not) with your permission.

So, talk to the vet and get a recommendation, and make sure he gets a thorough going over to rule out the possibility of pain issues, hearing or vision issues, etc.

Good luck!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Bev Levy on December 28, 2009 at 7:31am

You have received great advice so please follow through. Corgis are one of the many breeds that can be pretty bossy. My Sparty is one of them but I went to obedience classes when he was 6 months with a really great trainer. She helped me see what I was doing to encourage his behavior and how to safely put a stop to it. He is 10 now and a wonderful dog but occasionally I have to remind him of a few things. But he is safe around me and others (except for vet procedures but that has another story) due to just a few fairly easy changes. Dax is getting to the age where it will be more difficult with his biting so please act quickly. It will be the very best money you have ever spent!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Katy on December 28, 2009 at 9:54am

Also agree with the other posts on the behaviorist. But just a thing to maybe consider, is he possibly deaf? Not that it's an excuse for the behavior but there could be underlying causes as well. Good luck, I don't know what I'd do if it came to that with any of my dogs.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Marius on December 31, 2009 at 2:23pm

I'm sorry that i don't have time to read through all the replies to respond better, but I'd suggest reading a couple of Cesar Millan's books. They're quit interesting and he talks about aggression. The way you might carry yourself around Dax might also contribute to him attacking you. If your afraid of Dax's next attack, even if you don't show it, he will sense it and consider you week and attack to establish his dominance in the house. I would also try and get a different behaviorist in, maybe even contact Cesar's people directly, I mean, it couldn't hurt.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Sky and Lyla on January 1, 2010 at 12:55pm

Although some people swear by Cesar's methods, many behavrioists completely disagree with them. Never EVER try his methods at home by yourself. Even his own show gives that disclaimer. Doing things like alpha rolls (which most recent research has shown to be false in naturally formed wild dog packs) can actually create a more aggresssive dog and is a good way to get yourself bit again. Please contact a professional, preferably one that uses positive but firm methods. I have never once had to physically assert my dominance like Cesar, and yet both of my dogs are submissive. A good positive trainer or a clicker trainer can show you how to get these results.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Maureen on January 1, 2010 at 6:39am

Read this book: Be the Dog by Steve Duno and start obedience training that uses both positive methods and corrections. I have a similar issue with my older 17 month Delila - she will go after the puppy (Rylee - 4 months) (never me or any adults) whenever she decides something is hers. That applies to almost everything in the house (food, location, toys) and the hardest part is she is not consistently attached to things so it comes out of the blue. She had this issue with another dog and some children that started about a year ago - so I signed her up for more advanced training after her intermediate class. Most of her first year we did training using positive methods - including many to address this issue. I was always told to ignore the bad and reward the good - ironically this actually reinforced the bad (she never got corrected) and the positive training did not help control the attacks. We went to a new behaviorist/trainer right after the puppy arrived (she was repeatedly attacking him during the first few days). It turns out her issues relate to dominance and the fact that I let her become alpha dog (something the positive trainer failed to diagnose). We have been in obedience training for a few months where she has to do what I say or she gets a correction, and although it is a lot of work and many changes to her previously spoiled lifestyle (and mine), I see a huge difference in her behavior and I feel like I can stop the attacks before they start.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Beth on January 1, 2010 at 10:16am

Yes, ignoring only works if the dog wants something and by ignoring it, you are denying the dog what it wants. So, if a dog jumps on you for attention and you ignore the dog when he's jumping but interact with the dog when he's sitting quietly, you are extinguishing the unwanted behavior (jumping) because the dog is not getting what he wants.

There is no such thing as 100% positive training when it comes to the entire life of the dog. EVERY dog will need corrections at some point. Positive training works so well for teaching new behaviors (sit, stay, down) but not so well in extinguishing very bad behaviors (growling, biting, marking inside, etc).

There are levels of correction and they depend on your dog's personality and motivations, and that is why it's always good to consult a behaviorist who is experienced in dealing with problems.

I still favor trainers who use PRIMARILY positive methods to train most dogs to do most things, but any trainer who says they never used correction is either lying or never deals with real problems. A correction can be as simple as an Ah-ah or a leash tug or a down/stay.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Maureen on January 1, 2010 at 10:34am

I agree. I was a novice with the first corgi (Delila) and the trainer I used, who was recognized as a Karen Pryor trainer (what ever that means) knew the issues I was having and insisted that positive reinforcement was the only way to go. I complained many times that it was not working (and I worked really hard with the dog). Her response was that it takes a long time. My response was that I could not risk getting into a really bad situation. When I got the second dog and saw the escalation in Delila's bad behavior, I got a new trainer who is also an expert in dog behavior. We have a long way to go but the progress so far is almost amazing.

I never even knew how to do a leash correction until I switched trainers and many times that is all it takes to remind Delila to cease or not even engage in the bad behavior. I learned the hard way...

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Beth on January 1, 2010 at 11:39am

I think part of the reason so many trainers went to only "positive" methods is that many people correct too often and too late and don't praise/reward enough. The classic example is the case where a person's dog is being bold, and the person calls the dog to them and then scolds the dog. In their mind they are scolding the dog for the misbehavior, but in fact (as no doubt you instantly noticed) they are scolding the dog for coming when called. And now instantly, one bad correction and you have a dog who will no longer come when called.

However, properly timed, one quick correction can be infinitely less confusing (and therefore less stressful to the dog) than countless hours spent trying to cajole the dog. If you watch them with each other, they are not at all shy about giving corrections to one another.

I am glad you found a trainer who is helping you with your problems! And it's so important to be willing to switch, as you did, if the trainer's methods just don't seem to be working for you or your dog.

• ▶ Reply

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• Next ›
• Page