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Permalink Reply by Yuki & Ellie on October 18, 2011 at 9:03pm

You could also sit in the park and people/dog watch.  Pick an area where other dogs aren't going to pass right by his nose, maybe off of the path and in the grass a bit, and just watch the world go by.  If he really is afraid of other dogs, then maybe it will help him to see that other dogs aren't going to come at him.  If, by chance, someone does start to bring a dog over for a greeting, then you can explain what you're trying to do and ask them to keep their dog a respectful distance away.

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Permalink Reply by Beth on October 18, 2011 at 9:07pm

Hi Melissa.  Sorry to hear Franklin's having a tough time, and you are right to want to fix this as soon as possible.  I know you can't go back in time, but for the benefit of others who might google into this post, if a dog is involved in a scary situation and is not seriously hurt, it's best to follow the "get right back on the horse" rule whenever possible.  When Maddie got roughed up a few weeks ago, she wanted to slink off but I leashed her up and happy-talked her and walked her right past other dogs.  As soon as she relaxed we threw a ball a few times and got her romping in the vicinity of other dogs.  

 

If a dog is in a fight and badly hurt, it's harder but it's best to get them back out as soon as practical.

At this point, here's what I would do:  First, I'd find a spot with some other well-controlled on-leash dogs and spend a week or two just walking Franklin past them.  Ignore them, no greetings at all.  Treat, get out a toy, whatever keeps Franklin happy and focused on you.  Once he's relaxed with this, I would pick one calm, happy-go-lucky dog that you know and trust.  Parallel walk together with the dogs on your respective outsides, still no greetings.  After they are ok with this, allow one brief sniff and praise him and immediately walk away.  Leaving the other dog is his reward for staying calm.  Gradually increase the length of the encounter, and when he seems not at all bothered go someplace quiet where the same two dogs can interact off-leash.

 

If it's too hard to find someone to practice with, the other option is to find a trainer who does some low-key classes, just to get him out and mingling again.  

 

I know that you were trying to protect your dog and that's why you made the choices you did.  In retrospect, though, you can see what happened is Franklin had a bad experience.  He was a bit shaken by it and so were you, and he did the doggie equivalent of saying "I'm not sure, mom, dogs seem a little scary now."  And what you did, totally unwittingly and meaning well, was basically say "You are right, Franklin, other dogs ARE scary.  We had better avoid them." and so his fear has built over time.  

 

I used to ride horses, and I remember that if you fell, unless you needed hospitalization you pretty much were put right back on.  Muddy, scratched, breath knocked out of you and aching, you got back on that horse before you had time to go home and replay in your mind over and over how much it hurt to fall.  That "get right back on the horse" saying is really based on a very literal scenario, but it does apply well to any situation we enjoy which gives us a one-time scare.

Good luck!  Since he was well-socialized early, I'd say there's a good chance you can fix this if you are diligent and manage to put your own worries out of your mind while you work on it.

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Permalink Reply by Melissa and Franklin! on October 18, 2011 at 10:24pm

The weird thing is that Franklin broke his foot in the attack so wasn't allowed to play for several months (I think it was about 3 months before vet ok'd a trip to the dog park) and he was hesitant around big dogs and never got as playful as before, but we did go back and he did play. After the attack I would still take him regularly and stick with the small dog side when I didn't know the big dogs and he did fine and when I moved from San Francisco to Sacramento I found a nice quiet dog park that we went to frequently and he did ok there too. He has exercise induced hyperthermia so once the weather warmed up I could no longer take him anywhere where there wasn't TONS of water nearby (i.e. a river, lake, pool, or ocean) so we quit going to the park. I took him to a corgi meet-up in august and he did fine with those corgis but did see hesitant to play and just kind of did his own thing.

Another thing is, he is still friendly with other dogs on walks, just shy of big dogs, and what prompted me to go to the dog park to begin with was I randomly ran into a corgi on my walk and the corgi was on a long leash and Frank was off leash and Frank played really well with him. The owner said his dog was usually very aggressive but was getting along great with Frank and Frank was having a lot of fun so I thought I'd take him to the dog park so he could play some more since the other interaction was so short and seemed to go so well. And my friend brought her dog over yesterday that Frank had never met so we could see how he would do with that dog, and he didn't play with the dog at all, but he played with me while the other dog (a mini daschaund) ran around and barked at Franklin. So I think it really is possibly the park setting that got him so scared? Either way he needs to be re-socialized and as you said "get back in the saddle".

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Permalink Reply by Beth on October 18, 2011 at 10:39pm

Oh, that sounds like a much easier fix!  You are probably right about the setting.  I'd hang out around the outside of the fence and give him treats.   Then I'd walk through on-leash a few times when there are no dogs.  If you could arrange to go there with one dog he already knows at a not-so-busy time that might be good too.  

 

Dog parks make me a bit nervous too and there are frequently some badly behaved dogs.   It would be nice if you could find a few dogs that Frank can play with somewhere else--- someone's yard, or a quiet section of a regular park.  

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Permalink Reply by Melissa and Franklin! on October 19, 2011 at 12:25am

thank you for the advice! I've arranged for Frankie to meet up with a couple other Mycorgi members a couple of days this week. Once at a human park he likes to play in and once at a dog park I went to today and walked around with him at while nobody was there. We are planning the dog park visit for a time when there won't be other dogs (hopefully!). If other dogs are there I may just have Frank sit and watch outside the gate with treats as you suggested.

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Permalink Reply by Jane on October 18, 2011 at 9:52pm

I've found that places like Petco are pretty good for socializing a nervous dog. All the dogs are on leash and under some reasonable amount of control, unlike a park where any random dog might run up to yours. Sometimes I take Luke to Petco and we just practice walking around and ignoring the other people and dogs. I carry a treat pouch and use food to keep his attention on me if needed. If Luke seems comfortable I will let people pet him, otherwise I just say "I'm sorry he's shy" or "we're working on his confidence in new places, would you like to toss him a few treats?" People are usually understanding, at least in my experience. As far as dogs go, I only let him interact with dogs I know he will probably like and I just avoid the others. Or we'll use the "scary" dogs as practice - look at the dog, look back at me, get a treat!

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Permalink Reply by Katy on October 25, 2011 at 9:08am

That's where I begin socialization with pups, its seemed to work well for them and even well for brushing up on manners and such. People in public areas like that have a tendency to ask before doing or allowing their dog/s to interacting on a close level ie face to face which is where a lot of squabbles start :)
Good luck Melissa, Franklin should come around :)

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Permalink Reply by Anna Morelli on October 19, 2011 at 12:19am

I may be way off here, but it seems to me you're creating a problem that you don't need to fix.  Why do you take him to the dog park in the first place? So he  can play and have fun.  But that's not how he sees the dog park and for good reason. I would not force anything on him that is not needed.  Take him with you anyplace else, including places where dogs are  on leash, as Jane suggests.  Make sure he's comfortable around strange people, that IS important and let his confidence come from knowing that he will not be forced into unnecessary situations he dislikes....  He seems to be pretty well adjusted in general from your description and from other posts.

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Permalink Reply by Melissa and Franklin! on October 19, 2011 at 12:30am

I guess I was just doing the dog park because he didn't have any of these issues (shyness with other dogs and people) when we were going regularly. And I think that is because he saw so many dogs and people on a regular basis. I do try to take him to pet stores just to walk around frequently but he still has this issue. I'm also thinking maybe I need to just get him back into agility or obedience and that will build is confidence? The problem is I don't know what the trigger for the people fear is. There are no similarities between the people he has reacted to, one was a kid (and he has ALWAYS adored children), one was a tall person, one had a beard, but then he is fine with other kids, or other tall people, or other bearded men, etc. I'm really wanting to get him into therapy work but there is no way he will be able to do it when his reaction to strangers and dogs had become so unpredictable.

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Permalink Reply by Anna Morelli on October 19, 2011 at 10:55am

Melissa, there is a very clear difference between dog to dog interaction and dog to people interaction and they should be looked at separately.  You do not want him to be fearful of either, generally speaking, simply because this is uncomfortable for him.  If he is put in situations where he feels afraid, his fears will escalate. If he is put in situations where he is mildly uncomfortable and good things happen, he will SLOWLY become confident as his expectations change. This is a rule of thumb and only works if you "read" your dog correctly. If you have misjudged his coping abilities, don't push beyond mildly uncomfortable. Back off instead.  Be careful of food rewards, you can unintentionally reward the fearful behavior.  You also enter the equation: as he becomes fearful, you observe and react to that and you both get into a feedback loop with each other that tends to escalate. Try to not make a big deal of things within your own mind, in other words, watch your self-talk about the issue, and that will help you to lighten up in the moment.  As for people: if you have a basically friendly dog, who generally likes people, including kids, as you have described and he occasionally does not like a specific individual, I would not overly worry about that either.  Dogs' sensing abilities are different and often superior to ours and there may be something the dog is appropriately reacting to that you do not perceive.  This need not be anything bad, but different  enough that, if you understood the cues, you would not find his behavior "unpredictable", or inappropriate.

I would recommend generally relaxing on your part, taking him places you both enjoy (without too much of an agenda) as much as you can and some of your happy go lucky attitude will start to rub off on him. Forget about goals for awhile and stick to enjoying life together, you can then look into expanding what that may be. This approach should help you both :-)

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Permalink Reply by Melissa and Franklin! on October 19, 2011 at 11:32am

thank you!

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Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on October 19, 2011 at 12:04pm

Anna has a great point that I forgot about...the more I relaxed and was able to enjoy places the more Wynn and Livvy did too:)

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