New Member Here
Hello,
My name is Bruce, and I just was accepted into this discussion.
My first Corgi, Reilly, died last May at 16yrs, 3mos. He was a great little guy. We found a pair of rescue Corgis at Faeryeland Rescue in Minnesota. We were only looking for one, but they had been together for more than seven years (we were told), and their names were Fred & Ginger. How could you separate them?
It looks like they were kennel/breeding dogs, and they had NO training at all. We got them the end of June, and by the end of the year, they were doing very well.
We just love them, but last weekend a problem came up.
Fred does have a slightly compressed disc in his back, and he is on Rymadol and Tramadol when it acts up, which was happening. He want to come up into my Wife's lap, so she gave him a careful boost. He responded by biting her just above the eye. That was very surprising, as he has never shown any aggression to us previously. He has had a couple of small fights with my son in laws dog over a food dish, but I don't call that unusual.
Later, as we were readying for bed, I got down on the floor with him for a tummy rub, which I often do. When I went to get up, he attacked me in the face. Had to go to emergency for many stitches, as he really did a number on me.
We took him to our vet, who ran a complete series of physical tests as well as x-rays of his back, and some other things. Nothing new. She recommended a dog neurologist, which we took him to. After a full day of testing, MRI's Ultrasounds, spine tap, etc. they found nothing.
The only thing I find missing is a thyroid check, which we are going to ask for Monday.
I think he may have had some sort of seizure from the look of his eyes just before he attacked me. We don't know what to do with him. The recommendation is to put him down, of course, before he hurts someone again, worse.
We are heartbroken, as we love these guys so much - they are so great, loving, fun, everything. Any advice would be welcome. Sorry to put this in my first post, but it is the only thing on my mind at the time. When we asked to be on this forum, everything was fine. Things can sure change fast!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Vicky Hay on
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This may be the reason the dogs ended up at the rescue: maybe a previous owner couldn't bear to put one of them down and couldn't bear to separate them.
It's good that you weren't more seriously hurt -- he could have got you in the eye.
I once had to put a German shepherd to sleep after she attempted to kill a) me; b) my mother-in-law; and c) the veterinarian. All three incidents were unprovoked, and two occurred when the target turned away from the dog. The vet explained that some dogs are prone to something equivalent to human mental illness. He said this is likely to engage at about the age of 3 years (which happened to be the Gershep's age), and that when such a dog kicks in, it cannot be called off, apparently because it's so focused on going for the attack it doesn't hear commands. A dog that is trained as an attack dog can be called off (said he); a dog that suffers from this condition cannot be called off.
Please be extremely careful. Even a very small dog can inflict very serious injuries -- torn tendons, for example, require surgery, a lengthy recovery period, and physical therapy. These are not small dogs: 25 pounds attached to a set of teeth evolved to bring down a reindeer is not a harmless object.
Get a second opinion from another veterinarian. But if she or he concurs with your current vet, I'd say that's worth taking seriously.
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Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on
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I still wondering if he's in pain or could you have startled him? Can he see and hear good? My loving Wynn is super nice but if he's in pain or at the vet..He needs a muzzle. He walked in fine but I'd they touch him...he hates it.
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Permalink Reply by Bruce C. Sdunek on
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There is a pain factor with his compressed disc, and the Tramadol may no cover it. The thing I see, is the blank look in his eyes when this happened. I think it's seizures of some kind.
Still working with the vet, but running out of time.
Thanks, Jane
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I would also ask the vet if dogs ever get dementia or Alzheimers and therefor not recognizing you? Could this also be from him being a breeding dog(puppy mill) and never being decently treated?
If it would be seizures he could possible be put on a med but I really doubt this is it because he would more than likely(at least with people) return to his normal self after a seizure.
My guess might still be the pain.
I am sorry for both of you having to go through this.
Good luck!
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Yes, dogs do get dementia. My previous Corgi, Reilly did in his last year. Sometimes he wouldn't recognize me and become very defensive as he thought I was a stranger. Later, he had a couple of seizures; that's when we decided to put him down. He was 16yrs. 3mos, so, it was not so hard. In fact, the vet gave him one last check, and he went into a coma.
Oh, he also would wander the house, not seeming to know where he was. If he got in a corner, he didn't know to back out. Just sad to see.
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Had a German shepherd that seemed to suffer dementia in old age. She decided the shower was the doggie door and would keep trying to get outside through the shower stall. She became confused in other ways, too...it was strange. But she never tried to bite me or anyone else.
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Permalink Reply by Linda on
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I am so sorry you are going thru this. Such a hard thing to deal with and a difficult decision to make.
I've dealt with both pain and seizures in 2 different dogs. Completely different reactions. The one in pain..severe arthritis in his hind end...attacked several times without being provoked. If you touched him wrong he would snap. He attacked 2 of my cats who just rubbed up against him yet when I brought them home from the vet...there were injuries...he loved up on them so much because he missed them. We did have to have him put to sleep, it wasn't fair to him and I didn't want to risk him injuring one of the cats so bad that we would lose the cat.
The one who had seizures would come to me...he knew when one was starting...he would just stand by me and shake so bad until it passed. Sometimes he would lose control of his bladder. I would just hold on to him until he settled down.
Remember they can't tell us when they are in pain or how bad it is. I've been in severe pain with my back and I am not a nice person even to those I love dearly.
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As an afterthought: is there any possibility the dog could be having a reaction to one of the drugs? Is there some other kind of drug he could be given? I wonder if it would be worth trying aspirin. Of course it can have the same effect on dogs as it can in humans -- eat a hole in your stomach. But if you take it easy with the amount and are careful not to overdo it....? In humans, Tramadol can cause confusion, severe headache, and seizures (http://www.livescience.com/41174-tramadol.html); and here's a site that lists "aggressiveness" as a sign of a potentially life-threatening reaction to Rimadyl: http://www.srdogs.com/Pages/rimadylfr.html
Before you put the dog down, why not take him off of the drugs? Try switching from commercial dog food to real food -- my crippled-up old German shepherd experienced an amazing change when I put her on real food during the Chinese melamine poisoning flap. Here's one of my recipes: http://funny-about-money.com/how-to-make-dog-food/ Alternatively, you could try the raw dog food diet, which is considerably easier because you don't have to cook anything.
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This is a very good point... I've given two of my dogs Tramadol (prescription), benadryl, and aspirin in the past. For pain problems for one of my dogs, it does have some downsides. Here, http://www.anydogrescue.org/tramadol-for-dogs/ it says loss of appetite as one of them, well that is exactly what my dog had, loss of appetite. So, always be sure to monitor your dog and be aware that it could be the medication your dog is taking!
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Permalink Reply by Anna Morelli on
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I agree with Vicky Hay's last post regarding possible side effects of the drugs he is taking. It does not make sense to me that you would have no problems with the dog for over six months and then have severe aggression, unless his physical condition had deteriorated proportionately and this does not appear to be the case from the extended tests done. The bite to your wife could be because she inadvertedly caused him pain in giving him the boost, but that does not apply to what happened with you, so something else is going on.
Unfortunately, one has little leeway in working with a dog that poses a severe threat to humans within a household, especially when the cause is not clear, as in your case. You have walked the extra mile, to say the least, so you may not have many options.....
So sorry for all concerned.
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Good question about the drug side effects.
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Thanks for the positive response Anna. I wonder...
Look, Bruce: DO NOT construe this as advice. I am not a veterinarian and I am not a dog expert. But if it were my dog, here's what I'd consider:
Take the dog off the meds. Get a crate if you don't already have one. Get yourself some sturdy boots and and a couple pair of heavy-gauge denim or khaki pants. Wear those around the house.
Wait and watch for four to six weeks to see what happens after the effects of the drugs have presumably worn off (but who knows, really, how long that would be? If you can't find some research, pick a time period, any time period). Be very, very careful around the dog. Do not get on the floor next to the animal. Do not let him up on the sofa, bed, or other furniture with you. Keep your face away from him. Be careful when placing hands near him. Never, ever turn your back on him.
When you have to be busy or otherwise preoccupied, crate him. If children come to the house, crate him. If any adult guests come to the house, crate him. When workmen come to the house, crate him. Do not let him out of the crate when any innocent bystanders are in the house, under any circumstances. Never approach the animal without wearing sturdy clothing and shoes that will protect you at least to some degree. You might even want to wear leather work gloves when handling him.
If after four to six weeks, no more incidents ensue, there might be some reason to suspect the behavior is drug related. After another three or four months, if no more incidents occur, it might be safe to keep him.
You'd be taking on a substantial risk by doing this. You'd have to decide whether it was worth that much risk. And even if the aggressive behavior does subside, you'd always have to be on the QV. Plus you'll have to find some other way to deal with his back pain...or learn to ignore it.
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