Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Bev Levy on March 7, 2015 at 7:54am

Corgis are not like that !! What corgis are is a herding dog developed to keep the yard safe and move a few cows from one pasture to another. Consequently they will often try to take charge of situations. I would look up Nothing in Life is Free and use those techniques . A good positive based class would also help. There are lots of videos on youtube too. I especially like Zak George and kikopup. She is young enough that you should be able to put a stop to this if you are consistent. I've had some pretty strong willed corgis and they can learn to be good citizens. Good luck!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Anna Morelli on March 7, 2015 at 11:27am

I hesitate to comment on this post, but you may possibly be dealing with Rage Syndrome.  This was first noticed and studied in Springer Spaniels and I don't know if it has occurred in Corgis.  I evaluated an Alaskan Malamute with this condition many  years ago.  The dog was very sweet and I could not relate what I was seeing to what the owners were describing.  I offered to keep the dog at my house for observation.  I remember I was in my kitchen when the dog, all of a sudden, started to stare and then just "lost it" and tried to attack me.  Very scary.  Alaskan Malamutes are not known to be a target breed for this disorder.  The dog had to be put to sleep.  This may not at all be what you are dealing with, but aggression to people is never to be underestimated as even a small dog can do quite serious damage quickly. 

I would suggest you consider the possibility of Rage Syndrome with your Veterinarian, or other person he may recommend to make the assessment and take appropriate precautions in the meantime.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Beth on March 7, 2015 at 3:47pm

I am so sorry you are having this problem.  It is sad, confusing, and scary when our beloved pets try to hurt us.  Does she connect when she snaps at you?  Has she bitten anyone?  Broken skin?

If it were JUST the couch, I'd agree she might either be guarding it, or be one of those dogs who is easily startled when sleepy (there is a reason for the saying "let sleeping dogs lie").    But do I understand correctly that it's no longer just the couch, and her outbursts now seem random?

If so, I agree with Anna that it may be something neurological going on.  I might suggest trying to capture an episode on video if you have a smart phone and it's safe to do so.  I would also suggest consulting with a veterinary behaviorist (not a trainer) if you can find one within a hundred miles or so.   

This type of situation requires careful evaluation to determine if Molly can be handled in a way that keeps everyone safe or not.  Sometimes if it's neurological, medication can help.  There is some thought that rage syndrome might be a form of seizure, while others question whether it really even exists at all.  I tend to think it does.  

Again, I am really, really sorry you are dealing with this.  Frequently, even seemingly serious aggression can be managed and made better if triggers can be identified and a combination of training, conditioning, and management put into place.  Sometimes though some dogs are not ever safe.  It's especially heartbreaking when they are otherwise sweet, happy dogs.  

I would also suggest a very thorough vet workup to rule out some kind of physical pain as the cause.   Perhaps a different vet?  X-rays, bloodwork, checking for abscessed teeth, painful spots etc to rule out that she is lashing out in pain.   Your vet seems a little too willing to just say that Corgis are like this.  They are not.  It is true that many Corgis are funny about being handled and can get a little grouchy and grumbly and maybe even snappish over it, but that is not what you are dealing with here. 

Good luck.  Please keep us posted, and most importantly keep yourself safe.   Patricia McConnell, the behaviorist, has a blog post this week that you may want to read in case you feel the situation cannot be handled....   Hugs.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Holly on March 8, 2015 at 11:30pm

I live in a very small town as well. Only one vet is local and no one in town goes there. I find the comment "Corgis (or any dogs) are like that" to be pretty suspect. All dogs can be like that under certain circumstances unless there is a medical issue behind it, such as something neurological. If it isn't a medical issue there are plenty of behavioral consultants, but I know severe aggression can be hard to manage and heart-breaking. Others have much more experience than I but I wanted to offer my sympathy and support if you are forced to consider the safety of your family over keeping your beloved dog. You don't mention whether she was adopted, which could cause fear aggression, but this almost sounds like a seizure, Sounds like in the suddenness, I mean. I am by no means offering a diagnosis. If it is resource guarding and fear aggression I would think Nothing in Life Is Free would be worth trying, but you truly have my sympathy if it turns out to be untenable. I'm sure she is very sweet and much loved. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by susan on March 9, 2015 at 11:43am

Ugh. I'm sorry to hear this is happening to you. My sincere sympathies.

I hesitate to mention this but.... My previous corgi had a few bouts of completely out of the blue aggression when he was about 9. Soon after he was diagnosed with a brain tumor. The vet didn't say so, but I think that is what caused his personality change. I have also recently heard of another corgi, 4 yo, who suddenly and unpredictably became very aggressive, much like what you are describing. It got so bad they had to put her down. They did an autopsy afterwards and found a brain tumor. I would find a way to have this checked out and ruled out before you try much of anything else.

Best of luck to you. Please keep us posted.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Anna Morelli on March 9, 2015 at 11:59am

 I had not thought of a tumor, but have seen that also....  I guess what we are saying, in different ways, is that the root of the problem does not sound behavioral.  Please do update us when possible.  Sending loving thoughts toward you and your doggie.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Holly on March 9, 2015 at 1:27pm

It definitely sounds like we have consensus. I am sure it sounds very scary, but it may also be something less frightening and treatable. If you really can't get a second opinion I might consider keeping a diary for a couple of months. Watching for and jotting down any odd or unusual behaviors could prove very useful even if it is behavioral, but it can be very helpful to review symptoms over a few weeks. You may notice something that you might have dismissed, missed or forgotten about. I am rethinking my comment about seizures since they can be so frightening for an animal, even if they are just simple, momentary changes in conscience, which might result in sudden aggression. The same goes for other medical/neurological issues that may not be readily visible but may, hopefully be treatable. I once worked with a non-verbal woman who suddenly became aggressive on occasion. There were attempts to address it as a behavioral issue for sure, but as usual, medical had to be ruled out as well. Turns out she had a tooth infection that bothered her intensely off and on. I so hope Molly's issues turn out to be something easily resolved. Your are in our thoughts!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Angela Hollenbeck on March 9, 2015 at 1:04pm

Thank you all so much!! I have learned much from each comment here and I'm so grateful to have had a place to share this and have replies such as yours....even though the situation is very worrisome...I have felt some comfort and direction in going forward. 

Molly has drawn blood at times. Over the weekend she had a few more episodes...they were pretty scary and again directed at my 20 yr old daughter. Also during the weekend I paid very close attention to times, places, etc for more possible "trigger" areas for her.  

Although her behavior is amping up, I realized a couple of things....when she is sleepy and is touched by cuddling or because she is on our lap and we move...she gets very grumbly, we have seen this with her before....no matter what time of day....but something stood out to me, we changed where she sleeps a few weeks ago. She used to sleep in her crate in our room (my husband and mine) and now she sleeps in our son's room. She didn't really like the change at all. With this change, her bedtime changed...she is ready for bed between 9:30 and 10:00...our son goes to bed much later than this and it is during these hours that she seems even more aggitated. Although....any naptime or "den" time she gets grouchy if she feels infringed upon. She also does not like much noise or to be handled all of the time....I noticed the noise level has gotten busy in our home and that our daughter has been handling her a lot more than usual. Another observation....Molly has kind of (really has) staked her claim to me, and gets protective and jealous if she senses I'm stressed or someone she thinks is a perpetrator :-) to me...so she guards me or seeks them out to bark or show disapproval to them.  

Molly is such a sweet, happy dog, a true part of our family. For the most part she is good natured, loving and kind and always comes immediately to apologize after she goes off. It is hard and scary to see her behave this way! I am going to take the advice and get her checked for anything physical that could be wrong. This means a long trip...but I would rather know than guess. We have used the "Nothing is for free" method...and have seen good results!  After reading the thoughts, ideas and opinions here...I am taking something from each of them. Going to also readjust her sleeping schedule back to what it used to be.  

She needs to make some adjustments...as do we. The fear we feel needs to decrease as well...as this too plays into the whole issue.  Molly is a bossy little thing and I kind of think that she has hit a new stage in her developement...not a puppy anymore....and is loving her independence...whether anyone else appreciates it like she does....cannot be a question anymore. We appreciate and love her and want the best for her....I believe a higher level of boundaries is called for as well.

I hope within all of my being that this bizarre random aggression is not a health issue...I had wondered that in the back of my mind for some time now..but will get it checked out. My prayer too is that these behaviors will stop....we will try and make every adjustment possible. As, I want her in our life for good....safety is a must though.

Again, thank you all soooo much for your help!  Any additional thoughts are more than welcome! 

<3 Angela and family...Molly & Lucy (the cat) too!!

• ▶ Reply