What happens if we let the corgi fight continue....
I'm not talking about the rough playing or the spat that ends relatively quickly. I'm talking about the full on faces stuck together kind of thing that erupts on occasion. What happens if we just ignore it and allow it to continue.
We always break it up. I'm getting squeemish about jumping in a pulling the dogs apart as I've been bitten 3 times in the last year - one dog bit my stomach accidently when I pulled her apart and picked up the other combatant and on a different occasion after I pulled the dogs apart I put my hand up to block another dog running into the action and caught a tooth. The third bite happened when I was walking 2 corgis and an unleaded pit bull decided (luckily for me) that he wanted to stand on top of my dogs - one of the corgis bit my arm as I tumbled into the mass.
How far does it go if we let the corgi on corgi action run it's course. Last night we had 6 corgis around, about the 20th time for this get together when a fight erupted for the first time ever with this group. All 6 of the female corgis were involved in one way or another - a male shelty set and apparently enjoyed the action. We had to remove four of the dogs before we got the whole thing calmed down.
Seems like we get somekind of incident 3 or 4 times a year. What happens if we just let the fight play out?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Donald Till on
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Last night it got started over a dog chew - next time we visit my daughter we'll have her pick the chews and bones up before we get there. Haven't had to break one up by myself.
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Permalink Reply by Lori Brookes on
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I grew up with a gaggle of corgis (6 total) and dad never allowed all out fights . It isn't safe for the dogs. Corgis can be very territorial and like their own way even with each other. All out fighting was broken up and disciplined. If we knew who started it that dog received a longer firmer disciplin. Usually alpha female and the secon female would get into it.... Usually near their season or right after 2-4 times a year. When dad got tough on those responsible it ceased all together. We were also much more careful when they were in season. It was one of the few times I ever saw my dad or mom physically correct one of the corgis. It just wasn't usually necessary. We have a group of our own now and our alpha female has to be reminded of her manners occasionally. It is a pain for me ... Once the fight is broken up she goes to time out. We spend time with the others . After 15 minutes I get her out and verify that she is under controle. If she so much as grumbles at the other dog I correct vocally and put her in time out for a while. When we go outside she has to be on a lead . It's a pain but it sends her a message. Mom is alpha and mama says No Fighting and no biting or u get isolated. As she shows controle -ie removing herself rather than striking out I reward with praise and treats... I also make sure the other dogs in the argument give the alpha her space I don't let them lord her time out over her or pick another fight. Whatever behavior modification u choose be firm, consistent and think of the whole picture. Corgis should not be allowed to let their wild out on each other or ppl. This behavior should be a huge no no. Bad dog!
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Thanks for the response. We always separate the dogs for considerable time periods after these event for 1/2 hour or more. It really boils down to two dogs in the violent confrontation - Star old oldest and largest against Spice our 3rd out of the 4 and the smallest. If I put a new bone in the room Star gets it, then Scout, then SunnyD then lastly Spice gets it.
In general Star crosses some border or attempts to impose herself on another dog it really sets Spice off. What's difficult about the situation is if we correct Star, Spice thinks it empowers her to do the same. If we correct Spice, Star seems to think she should do the same. It's an impossible conundrum and we just decided we would have to feed the dogs in different rooms.
These dogs really really go at - lucky for us it doesn't happen much. Whats weird is it couldn't possibly be going on when we aren't around - ie. we aren't finding blood stained dogs. I was kinda hoping people say oh they'll stop in a couple of minutes and make up - guess not.
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Permalink Reply by Bev Levy on
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Start saving for your vet bills.... If you know a situation might get dicey I would have some of the dogs drag a leash during that time so you can break it up easier.
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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Honestly I allow one dog (or cat) to correct another but as soon as it turns into a two-way thing I stop it. Since I have one male and one female, they aren't that serious about it and just my saying "Enough!" in a thundery sort of tone brings the whole house to a stop.
But two of the same sex will usually just continue to escalate.
Best to avoid situations that you know set them off, and use crates and baby gates when needed. If you have that many Corgis in a room, squabbles are bound to happen. I think a lot of breeders and stuff with more than two or three tend to sort of rotate them in smaller batches to minimize conflict.
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Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on
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My question to you is "if it seems to many times around a chewy /rawhide...why wouldn't you seperate them to start with so each can enjoy their own?" Toys and even antlers in my house are always laying around BUT rawhides they each get their own at the same time in different areas so noone can take someone elses. That way they can enjoy them and not worry.
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Jane, for any large edibles Maddie gets crated and Jack gets the living room. For something like a strip of sweet potato, Maddie eats faster so I referee. I agree that two rawhides plus two loose dogs would equal a problem in my house, and mine get along very well and there is an established pecking order.
Throw a food-snatching cat into the mix and it would be a nightmare. When they get Dentastix, Maddie AND the cat get crated, Jack (who takes his time and doesn't like to eat in a crate) gets the living room, the others aren't released til Jack is done eating and licking the rug.
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Permalink Reply by Anna Morelli on
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A number of things in your posts have me scratching my head. After all the fights and bites you received you describe yourself as "just getting squeemish about jumping in there and pulling the dogs apart". You must be a very patient person and not very assertive and you must also have considered that some fighting among the dogs was to be expected and acceptable. I raised Alaskan Malamute for 30 yrs, they are a dog aggressive breed, so I know alot about this subject. I suggest you trade your Corgis in for Malamutes and you will figure the whole thing out a lot faster because it will all be magnified :-D
Joking apart, you take a huge risk (dollar-wise and for the health of the dogs) if you do not separate them when you are gone. When you are there, IF you are the Alpha leader in your dog/people family, fights are less likely to occur. Judging from the results you have, please take no offense, you obviously are not. I would recommend you take obedience classes ( more than just one basic class) with an experienced trainer, enrolling yourself with the most dominant of the dogs and eventually working your way down to the others. This will help you establish your position and give you voice control over the dog in a class situation with other dogs and people around. Continue classes until you have reached this degree of control..
Next, do not allow any physical ( meaning body contact) play between the dogs. Aggressive dogs do not play in the human sense, it's all a ritual to assert dominance and can all escalate into fighting, especially when you have dogs that have fought before. You stop it as soon as you see it. NO bones, rawhides, chews of any kind, nor any toys that provoke guarding. Give as much exercise as you can. You can walk two at a time and alternate who you walk.
Every fight makes it more likely that you will get another one and they have long memories. Dogs that fight love to fight! I assume everyone is spayed or neutered, if not other concerns/precautions would apply.
Heredity has a part in it too, some strains within each breed are more dog aggressive. If, after implementing the suggestions, you still have fights between the dogs that you cannot immediately stop by voice alone and you are in a home environment, or if this all sounds like more than you want to or can do, you may want to consider re-homing at least the worst offender and limiting the number of dogs you have to what you can safely manage in a stress free way.
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Dogs get two walks a day most days and at least 1 a day.
We're not interested in rehoming any dog. We would consider separating the dogs long before that.
As far as we know this has never happened when we aren't around which led to my question in the first place. The dogs are between 3.5 and 5 years old and they've been together the whole time. Like I said we get an incident about every 3 or 4 months - and people are always around.
I want to say we are fairly assertive with our dogs but that said every incident has happened when we let our guard down. In fact everytime it has happened we (or someone else) was asserting authority but not really taking enough control - I talk about what appears to be a conundrum in another post.
Considering to the best of our knowledge the "big" fights don't happen when we are not around I was thinking maybe they take place or escalate because we are around and that our best course of action would be to just go in the other room.
There were 8 people, all dog owners including one vet in the home when this last incident took place.
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below is a rant - read at your own risk.lol
I would agree with much of what you said Anna...I am also concerned for some of the other posts. Corgi's are not dogs that I would expect to attack children or anyone for that matter. My mom has been rehabilitating a corgi rescue recently. I am saddened by what this dog has been allowed to do all its life and the bad habits - that eventually led to it being removed from its home- that are now dangerous. Corgi's are small dogs, but they act like...think like a large dog like a shephard. There must be a strong decisive human leader in the home who is consistent and loving with the corgi. I feel concerned when I hear people talking about corgi's that wont' come when called...who guard their toys or food from owners or other dogs and this is considered ok. It is up to us to raise our Corgi children to be good productive citizens of the planet. Our daughter was frustrated that Gizzmo (our alpha) always makes Amie fetch the ball....I struggled to get her to understand that everything we do with the dogs is training. Giz fetches for everyone else, but because Amie was impatient when gizz was learning to fetch and would go get the ball rather than end the game, Gizzmo thinks that when she plays fetch with Amie...Amie should bring the ball to her. Everything we allow becomes ok....Corgi's readily assign behaviors to certain people. They know when I come in the living room they better not be on the furniture, but that in the family room all comfy spots are fair game for dogs and humans. They also know to ask if they want up with me in the living room. I get a specific sheet that we use to protect the furniture and they hop up. They are very smart, but they need firm loving consistancy. I see from posts that the fighting has to do with food toys....I would never put one food toy down to more than one dog. In my mind that is common sense. Dogs don't see the world as people do - sharing is not a dog concept. They can be taught to share most things, but not usually food. Why is the dog that growls over his/her food when ppl walk by not reprimanded and then desensitized? You take the food away and return it when the dog calms and is asking and not demanding. Then you wait a minute and move your hand to the bowl. If there is a growl the dish gets taken away for 2-3 minutes. Then begin again. When the dog doesn't growl at your hand reward them. Over time people will be allowed to do anything they want with food. In this senario you must also consider does the dog have to compete for food with other dogs? is the dog being fed regularly and enough? We desensitized our alpha corgi this way with my 3 year old nephew. She growled at him when he was near her food bowl. That got a big verbal and proximity reaction from me. We desesitized this with Austin. When there was no complaint and Giz would let him do what he wanted with her food... insident was over. (a side bar) Austin wondered back to the bowl when we were not looking. Gizzmo came running in to me barking and grumbling (we discourage outside type barking unless there is need) running back toward the door. We followed her to the kitchen where we found Austin eating her food. She didn't growl at him...didn't bite him - mostly because she knew I would come unglued. But she was ok with tatteling about this grievous offense. Earlier I clearly communicated to her she was not in charge of her food. She respected me and honored my desires as mom alpha....but she expected me to take care of the problem that I said I was in charge of. She was VERY satisfied (in a way only a corgi or doberman can be) when Austin was scolded and moved away from her dish. She layed down next to it humphing and grumbling to herself. it was hilarious! Then to make sure the right message was communicated to everyone Austin was given a hand full of kibble to put in Gizzmo's dish. Gizzmo didn't respond with aggression. She perked up and watched him. then layed back down when we called him away. Everyone satisfied. Gizzmo likes it now...cause when Austin is with us...she gets fed alot! I must confess like my children...my dogs have one toy and a blanket that are only theirs. They are kept in their kennels and no one is allowed to mess with them. Everything else is for sharing. We have estabilshed that their kennel is their space.....I just have one dog that is a cronic hoarder. hehe. She tries to put all the toys in her cage so that she won't have to "share" them. This is scolded and toys that are for sharing are put out in the toy box. Maybe the difference is our dogs all work (except my hubbies boxer - she is just for slobbering, playing and lap sitting). My corgi's are the only reason I can still take care of a farm. They do most of the work for me. I can't have them fighting. They must get along and do their jobs. I deal swiftly with behavior I believe is bad or could become bad...and I just as swiftly give them lots of praise and love for all of their hard work. You don't teach a dog to scratch at the door to go out by placing a bell there unless you want them to scratch at every door everywhere anytime they want out. If they like to be outside they will drive you crazy scratching to go out and your doors will suffer damage. As humans it is our responsibility to think ahead ... and know that we are training our dogs for good or ill all the time.
rant over....just feel very passionate about this.
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Obviously you and Anna both feel very passionate about "this".
We don't deny it's our responsibility to train and control our dogs. However, like you say, it's a very difficult jobs, especially when we visit other people who have Corgis that behave exactly like ours.
This is our second family of Corgis, plus my daughter has 2 and my wife grew up with two as well. One thing is for certain and that is that stuff is going to happen even if you always are in control of the situation. You let your guard down or something unexpected happens, - yes it is always the dog owners responsibility.
No one is perfect, and if you come here and claim you never have these kinds of issues, ie. dogs fighting you either have very passive dogs or a single dog or you're just not telling us the truth. Everyone I know, and many other readers on this forum, has these kinds of issues from time to time.
My question was simply what happens if we let the dog fight continue? You didn't answer my question and neither did Anna preferring instead to suggest I might need to rehome my one of my dogs because we have 4 well trained and well cared for and well exercised dogs and we visit other dogs and sometimes (4 or 5 times a year, lots less now that we are feeding separately) a fight breaks out.
Geez I come here to share my experiences and end up with a couple of holier than thou dog owners telling me I may need to rehome my dogs.
Contrary to you and Anna's response we feel very passionate about "this" too.
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