RAW Foods
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Rachael & Waffle on
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I feed Waffle a [mostly] Whole Prey Model (WPM) diet consisting of 80-85% muscle, 10-15% bone, and 5-10% organ. The diet is fed at 2-3% of his ideal body weight. I set up a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet which lists the ranges of the amounts of food I need to feed him per day and per week. At an ideal weight of 32 pounds—he’s a big corgi—he should be eating between 10 and 15 oz a day.
I do have to caution that homemade diets (especially cooked homemade diets) are notorious for being nutritionally deficient. Because of this, I recommend you do a lot of research before diving into the world of raw foods, unless you are planning on buying a premade raw product. Of the raw diets I’ve read about, WPM should be, in theory, meeting all of a dog’s nutritional requirements with minimal guesswork. What happens in theory is not always what happens in practice, however. Because I don’t yet trust my ability to feed 100% raw without damaging my dog’s health, I feed him a product called The Honest Kitchen and Orijen kibble for about a week out of the month. This helps restore his appreciation for raw food (he gets picky if he’s been eating the same thing for a while) and also probably gives him any nutrients he is missing. He used to be on The Honest Kitchen all the time, and his fur was nice… but now that I’ve switched to raw meat, his fur is GORGEOUS and strangers never hesitate to tell me about what good condition his body/coat is in. My landlord is so enamored with his health that she started asking me for tips!
If your dog is an inhaler, not a chewer, a raw diet may not be right. It’s IMPERATIVE that the dog chew the bones it is given to eat. A poorly chewed bone could cause an intestinal obstruction or pierce the GI tract, both of which are an endangerment to your dog’s health and your wallet. Also, dogs can and do get infections from pathogens on the meat. I didn’t believe it until it happened to Waffle. The amounts of nasty bacteria on store-bought meat is just so high… and sitting on the shelf only makes that bacteria multiply. It’s very important for your dog’s health to buy [preferably fresh] quality meat. Furthermore, you need to find a butcher shop that can sell you offal! They do sometimes have tongue or heart at the grocery store, but a butcher is so much more reliable and can provide you with different protein source, such as pork liver instead of chicken livers. Also, you can reduce the chance of your dog coming down with an infection from his or her diet by feeding a probiotic. Probiotics promote the growth of healthy bacteria in the gut, which use up nutrients that the bad bacteria need to grow. So, they stop bad bacteria from growing by eating all of their food and taking up their space.
While on the topic of bacteria, there’s also a pathogenic threat to you and the people around you. Dogs fed a raw diet shed 40% more pathogens in their saliva and feces than dogs fed a “normal” diet. To someone with a strong immune system, this is not usually a problem. If it were, I’d have had a GI infection maybe 4 times. But, to children or to the elderly or otherwise immunocompromised people, this could be a threat to their health. Following food safety protocol only goes so far. Your dog does drool and lick and otherwise spread its saliva all over, which means amounts of GI pathogens will be present in higher amounts in your home. If you or your dog come into contact with such people, you will want to consider if the risk to those people is worth the benefit to your dog.
That said, I think that feeding a WPM diet is one of the best things you can do for your dog if you are prepared (mentally, emotionally, financially, socially) for the risks involved.
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Permalink Reply by John Wolff on
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I disagree about bone-chewing. COOKED bones are supposed to be bad for dogs (they allegedly splinter and do't digest as easily). Sirius was a gulper, raw chicken legs, wings, and necks would simply disappear, bones and all. Intestinal obstruction was not a problem, but esophageal/tracheal obstruction was: one bad day, she was fed a turkey neck -- she was not a large corgi -- she choked and died very quickly. Do think about that.
You do want to think about kitchen hygiene -- raw meat in a drip-proof pan on the bottom refer shelf, hot water and soap, be always aware of what's "dirty" and "clean", I wash the dog bowls when I'm done, lastly my hands. Lots of hand soap. Fingernail brush. Dog stuff separate from people stuff.
Remember that these animals will snack out of the catbox and whatever they find on the ground; it's not the food they are fed that I'm squeamish about. With them, the oral/fecal route is more like "oral/fecal/oral/fecal/oral/fecal/oral/fecal".
You might check out Joanna Kimball's blog Ruffly Speaking http://blacksheepcardigans.com/ruff/ I've not read it in a while, but I do believe she had some useful rants about raw feeding in there somewhere.
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I have heard of it happening, so I thought I would include it. I have never read any first-hand accounts of either problem, though, just vet techs on forums posting hear-say... the bone could have been raw or it could have been a cooked bone and the owner said it was raw because they were embarrassed. Still something to keep in mind, though, as I'm sure it's happened to someone somewhere.
Waffle chews all of his food, but he does swallow big chains of chewed food and it always worries me. In the beginning, he would cough up the chain if it was too large (gross). Now he knows how big is too big-- no more hacking. I would be very afraid of feeding him big hunks of raw meat/bone if he didn't chew. x:
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Permalink Reply by Nicole Murphy on
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I'm sorry it has taken me so long to reply. Thank you so much for all the helpful information. I am going to do more research on the Whole Prey Model. I've started Gracie and my new pup Riley on a "mix" diet. They are free feed kibble (blue buffelo), and given RAW in the morning. They get a varity of meats, bones, and organs, from different animals. Gracie loves beef and Riley will eat anything with a smile. I've seen a huge improvement in Gracie's coat. She has Jack Russel in her and had a brittle coat, but now her coat is SO soft to the touch. Riley looks great too, and is learning to not be a picky eater with is really good. Again Thank you very much for your replies! Sincerely, Nikki
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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We met a raw-fed Sheltie at the pet store (breeder, feeds only raw) and I must say that the dog didn't look to have a better coat, teeth etc than most of the pets I see. I have heard how fabulous raw-fed dogs look, BUT remember that most people who feed raw are very involved pet-parents and do a lot more with their dogs than the average person.
Anyway, the dog just looked like a regular ol' Sheltie. In fact, the Sheltie up the street from me has a nicer coat. Now, it could be this dog has some coat issues and would have looked awful on kibble.
I have no way of knowing that.
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Permalink Reply by Peggy Woods on
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Rachel has done a lot of research & is a model "raw parent"!
I am also feeding my dog raw & have done so almost his entire life. I have to travel quite a distance to get to a proper butcher, so for the most part I use the frozen "Nature's Variety". It comes in burger-type patties or smaller medallions. I keep 2-3 flavours on hand & rotate so he doesn't get the same food every day. When I get access I supplement with raw (organic) bones (I can get these from my CSA provider, but only in the summer). He also gets some kibble (Orijen) with a squirt or 2 of cod liver oil on it. Or it goes in his treat ball for a play/snack/treat. I have received many compliments on his appearance, coat quality and even a "I'd take a pup he sired" (that opportunity was cut short last fall).
I did research also - not as much as Rachel, however. I found the yahoo group (rawfedpup?) was a good place to start. Just poke around the 'net & figure out what will work for you, your dog & your lifestyles. There are several options between packaged & make-your-own. If you live in a larger area, you might even have a butcher shop or health food store that makes a ground pet food blend (has offal already mixed in).
Hope you can figure out something for the both of you :)
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Thank you for your postive response about RAW diet. Its so encouraging knowing that there are others out there feeding RAW. I looked into Nature's Variety, but with my two big eaters it was alittle out of my price range. I ended up finding a supplier out of Texas that sells different frozen meats for dogs in 2lbs rolls, and 40lb cases of raw meaty bones. Texas Tripe All Meat Dog Food. I end up paying about 35 cents a pound for bones and 59 cents for meat and organ. It works out great since we go through about 3lbs a day with the dogs! Again, thank you!!!
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Vancouver, WA? Check out http://www.darwinspet.com/
You're probably outside their delivery area but they may have helpful info and maybe someone similar in Portland area. They deliver bricks of frozen ground raw meat to our door. I don't even wanna know what we're paying for this.
We got started on raw with our first dog, skin itching/chewing/allergy(?) problem that disappeared when grain was removed.
Nowadays, we supplement with a small amount of Wellness kibble (contains barley) and the glucosamine/MSM stuff.
We've noted that as the proportion of kibble increases, so do smelly messy stools and dogbreath. Dog turds on a pure raw meat diet are firm, hard, odorless.
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Their poop on a raw diet is so great! When I feed Waffle his Honest Kitchen, his poops are so big I can barely hold them in my hand... though a plastic bag, of course. I have small hands, but it's still a very sizable amount of poop. I think both of us are relieved when that week is over, haha.
I've heard from my friend's vet that whole prey model dogs always have the best blood, too--really bloody blood that clots perfectly.
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Permalink Reply by Edward and Gemima on
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I have had both Ed and Gem on Nature's Variety frozen raw diet from the moment they could take adult food. Good choice so far for us. I agree with John about being religiously cleanly with it though, so if you don't want the extra dishes etc probably not the right choice.
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Permalink Reply by Ellen Andersen on
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I don't know if it would matter in your case, I seem to remember but not positive, that some Therapy Dog certification organizations (perhaps Delta?) won't certify dogs feed on a raw diet. I don't know if you're considering doing therapy work with your pooch.
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Permalink Reply by Aber, Ragnar and Kelso on
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This is a great resource for info (although out of the UK)
http://www.petforums.co.uk/dog-health-nutrition/111437-raw-feeding-...
I'm so happy to see people enthusiastic about feeding raw. Last time I mentioned it on here, I got a lot of negativity. Once we've moved and we have a readily available variety of farms to buy from, we're switching our corgis and cats to raw as much as possible (one cat won't go for it, I don't think). I just think fresh and whole is better and while kibble is convenient and we'll probably still supplement with it to make sure all their needs are met (and if we ever want to take a vacation, we know they'll eat!), I don't want to it to be the primary food they eat.
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