Puppy Attacking My Leg When We Go on Walks!
I'm a first time corgi owner and my puppy has started biting my pants and leg when we go for walks. It is funny and sad because other people at the park where I walk her think that it is just so cute, but she is just not getting the physical activity that she needs when she does to me. I know that this behavior is "in their genes" because they are herding dogs, but I'm no cow! haha. Any advice would be great! Thanks! :)
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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It took me awhile to perfect my tone for my "no" or "ah-ah" with Jack. I now use the same volume I use for all commands, but I just drop my voice a half-octave or so lower. For all his bossiness, he's a sensitive dog and a harsh correction normally won't do.
I tried the long pause when I was teaching Maddie to sit. You may recall I struggled because she was trained to stand for everything, and she was not getting it. After pushing her back end down for the thousandth time, I figured she had to have the idea but was just confused between her old training and the new training. So I said "Sit" then when she did not respond, I just crossed my arms in front of my chest and sort of looked up toward the sky, but watched her from the corner of my eye. She stood there for a good ten or fifteen seconds, then her back end started towards the ground in slow motion. The second it hit I told her what a good girl she was.
Sometimes they just need a minute to think about what we asked. In my own experience, if a dog is being willful a correction will help, and Jack also understands a "no" I use in training that doesn't mean "that's bad" but rather means "That's not what I'm looking for, try again." But my experience is that when a dog is very excited and offering unwanted behavior, ignoring is the way to go!
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Permalink Reply by Mel K on
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Herding gene or not a puppy going to that extent to 'argue' with you is definitely pulling an alpha card. I would find help to nip that in the bud. JMO. My boy is alpha, we knew that days after bringing him home and we've been training accordingly as he has the potential to be an ungodly terror to rival Godzilla. :)
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I found a great article last night about herding dog "bossiness". I'll need to find it again and post parts of it.
Basically, herding dogs have a need to try to manipulate their environment and get a response, just like gun dogs have a need to chase after/ flush out game. It does not mean they are trying to "be in charge." In fact, most herding dogs are not really "alpha" personalities. Confusing bossiness with wanting to be the leader can sometimes cause problems.
Or, to give another example, I once read a trainer who said the "alpha" stuff makes her cringe a bit. If you have a two-year-old and they throw a tantrum, you don't instantly think "Oh, the problem is he wants to be the mommy!" No, you think "he's tired, he's pushing boundaries, he's being a brat" etc. Yet with dogs, so often if they don't instantly obey us, or push back, or throw a bit of a tantrum, we think "He's trying to be alpha!" when that is often not the case.
This evening I'll find that article on herding dog manipulative tendencies and put it up. :-)
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Permalink Reply by Merlin's Moms on
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Hi Beth,
If you could find the article, that would be great! We have a 5 month old Cardi who is still a little ankle biter and we have tried everything we can think of to get him out of the habit. It's much better now than it has been (if we're at home, we close the door and put him out of the room with us, put him in the kitchen with baby gates, or put him in his crate to calm down). Yesterday I was out walking him and he was getting bitey and he jumped up and tore my work pants. Any help would be appreciated, and I've also found that giving stern corrections (saying no in a loud voice, trying to physically restrain him, doing an "alpha" roll or even just holding him on his back) just gets him more riled up. He does know leave it, and will leave our feet, ankles, for about two seconds until we take another step and then he will do it again. Doesn't make it very conducive to getting dressed in the mornings!
I don't think he's an alpha...he is just playful and energetic and wants to engage us in his style of play, which is a style that we don't particularly like since it is painful, destructive, and would be scary to a kid or someone fearful of dogs. We are signing him up to do a herding instinct (and I've got no doubt that he's got it!) and hopefully that will redirect some of this behavior from us to the sheep!
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Hi Merlins's Moms!
Here's the link:
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1959&S=1...
And some relative excerpts in italics:
Herding work involves nipping at livestock animals to move them along. This instinctive behavior can carry over to people if the dog isn’t trained properly, and that training needs to start the minute you get the dog. (See Puppy Biting) Particularly in the breeds specialized for sheep herding, the nipping may be gentle. That’s the perfect time to teach the dog not to put teeth on human skin at all, and then no one should be accidentally injured by dog teeth in play.
Some of the herding dogs will merely poke you rather than nipping to move you along. It may seem cute, but it can easily escalate, so you need to stop it from the start. Happily it’s a simple problem to remedy—all you have to do is stop! The dog is poking you to get you to move faster, typically toward meal preparation.
When fixing the dog’s dinner, you have the dog’s full attention, making it an excellent time to train. When poked, simply stop. Wait a few seconds, and then start to walk again. If you are again poked, immediately stop. It doesn’t take much of this for a smart dog to learn that poking only slows you down! Do this anytime the dog pokes you, jumps on you, nips at you or does anything else to get you to move. Don’t move. Be the incredible stop-action human!
Absolute consistency is a must, because if you only stop and ignore sometimes, but sometimes nipping gets you to move and sometimes it gets you to pay attention, the puppy is trying to piece together the magic combination that gets the desired reaction. That means they will try even harder to get you to do what they want.
This was the part about bossiness vs dominance, but it's not the first time I've seen this referenced.
It’s a common misconception that herding instinct or herding behavior is the equivalent of dominance. This trait is important to understand in order to get on the wavelength to communicate effectively with a herding dog. Herding instinct is a need to interact with others in the environment. The dog has a strong need to act and see a reaction. You could say the dog has a need to manipulate the environment.
The herding dog needs to be able to take initiative—to offer you a behavior and be right, to find it was pleasing to you and have you acknowledge the dog did something for you before you asked. If the dog is wrong about what you want, the dog needs you to understand it was an honest mistake, and not punish.
This is not dominance. A dog can be very submissive and have strong herding behaviors. The dog is not trying to push you around. And if the dog is trying to manipulate you, it is in an effort to serve you. This is what a herding dog wants out of life.
Working herding dogs needed to take direction, but also needed to be independent problem-solvers and think on their own. That means if they think you are making not the best decisions, they may follow their own advice. It also means they will try your boundaries to get an idea of how serious you are about following through with your commands. The key is consistency and redirecting their energies into behaviors you want. For example, when Jack used to bark at me to try to force me to play, I'd tell him "Go get your bone" or "Go get your rings!" to give him a positive way to express that instead of just barking.
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Hi Beth! Thank you so much! I glanced through the article and I will spend some more time reading it this evening.
--Amber (one of Merlin's moms)
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I've had GSDs before and a friend of mine raises Australians, the GSDs I've had did not have the same in charge arrogant attitude as Caleb and for the most part neither does my friends Aussies. She's had two pups that were similar in temperament to Caleb and while they were amazing dogs and workers she had to keep an eye on what they got away with as it would go immediately to their heads and they would test their handlers.
Some children most definitely are 'alpha' as well, working in a daycare for a year sheds light on just how diverse childrens personalities are.
Caleb does not instantly obey...though I have to admit a ready made obedience dog would be nice! :) He has his own personality, and he's definitely allowed to be himself as well as be a puppy but I will not tolerate some things in my dogs, I never have and Caleb is no different.
When I taught dog obedience, I treated every dog as an individual, not by breed characteristics or stereotypes.
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Permalink Reply by Amanda & Winnie on
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I just feel like it is a mix of personality and breed when it comes to Winnie's behavior towards me. I'm very new to this breed, and all the dogs I've owned in the past have been much more willing to please me and laid back in temperment. I reseached this breed before I got her from the breeder, so I somewhat knew what I was getting myself into. I'm going to TRY to take her on a walk in a few minutes, wish me and my pants luck.
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Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on
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Good luck! Winnie needs to know you are the leader and you need to be consistant! some personalities are stronger than others thus some are more difficult but alot has to do with the training. Can you take her to classes? Honestly I've had 4 corgis puppies and 4 rescues and this particular problem lasted less than a week. Hang in there...
What I hear from your last messages is..Winnies "behavior" toward you...corgis are smart and can manipulate...but it's not a personal thing as much as a who's gonna be "boss" thing! Most dogs and or people for that matter given a chance to be the leader will go for it. I don't know if this makes sense as I know what I want to say but not sure it's coming out quite right!
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Melissa,
I hope you don't misunderstand and I am not denying your assessment that your own Corgi is dominant! :-) You are an experienced handler and this would have been taken into account in puppy-choosing.
I was just trying to clarify that the vast majority of Corgis who nip, herd, and talk back are not trying to be "in charge" so much as pushing boundaries and finding unwanted outlets for their bossy herding behavior. This needs to be redirected. But talking and herding are as natural to a Corgi as chasing a rabbit is to a Beagle.
I agree that each dog is an individual. However, if a friend came to me and said "My beagle ignores me off-leash if he's following a scent," I would shrug and say "Welcome to beagles!"
I once saw someone write in for advice to a trainer on dealing with an Aussie who would get up and run in front of the door and nip or push when guests would try to leave. Unacceptable behavior, to be sure, but I was positively floored when the trainer mentioned anxiety or fear as possible motivations but did not even consider the fact that door-blocking (while unwanted) is not terribly uncommon in a dog with a very strong herding instinct. So yes each dog is an individual, but the activities a dog was bred to excel in should of course be considered when judging the motivation for a dog's behavior.
Hope you didn't take it the wrong way! :-)
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Oh goodness no. I just tend to start debating at the drop of a hat at the moment. Being pregnant makes me much worse then normal. :) No hard feelings at all, feel free to wave a stick and threaten me with it if I get too big for my britches. :)
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Permalink Reply by robert bender on
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my patch is now 7 months we brought him home he was 10 weeks at first he was just shy but that didnt last but about a day or two before he started to do the ankel nipping i think my kids lived sitting on the couch scaried to walk the floor becase he would nip at them but after awhile he just stopped doing it on his own we are starting to teach him to walk on the treadmill to burn off some of that puppy energy ...
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