Minimal Vaccinations
I am becoming more and more in favor of holistic animal care or "natural rearing." I started out making small changes, a holistic kibble, adding enzymes and antioxidants, etc. I now am feeding a grain-free holistic kibble (raw food about 20% of their diet due to cost and availability in my area), as well as adding in probiotics, etc. My Corgi's allergies are now non-existent (they were not very bad to begin with) and my Aussie's as drastically reduced. What's more, my Aussie who used to pick up every little virus everywhere he went, has not had one problem (*knock on wood*) since I have made these changes. I attribute this to his immune system functioning better (and I truly believe it was functioning at at reduced capacity before thanks to the vet that prescribed him antibiotics 4 times in 6 months).
I have also been doing a lot of research into the minimal vaccine schedule. In fact, a lot of holistic breeders don't use any vaccines, or use nosodes instead, and say their dogs fight off illness better than vaccinated dogs. I can believe it, but I am hesitant to take such a big leap. I am interested in hearing from anyone on this site that has chosen to responsibly not vaccinate or operate by the minimal vaccine schedule that Dr Jean Dodds set forth. Specifically, have you run into any problems attending classes at your local dog training clubs, going to day care, entering trials, etc?
I have also been doing a lot of research into the minimal vaccine schedule. In fact, a lot of holistic breeders don't use any vaccines, or use nosodes instead, and say their dogs fight off illness better than vaccinated dogs. I can believe it, but I am hesitant to take such a big leap. I am interested in hearing from anyone on this site that has chosen to responsibly not vaccinate or operate by the minimal vaccine schedule that Dr Jean Dodds set forth. Specifically, have you run into any problems attending classes at your local dog training clubs, going to day care, entering trials, etc?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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We do nursing home visits through TDI, which requires vaccines. We also board, which does require vaccines, and I know the agility trainer I am signing up with.... well, requires vaccines.
Our vet does the initial series of shots, then moves to every 3 years for the core five-way. Rabies is done as required by law. My elderly cat has had nothing but rabies for the past five years or so, per my vet's recommendation.
However, we also do two vaccines that are somewhat controversial, lepto and lyme. My vet only recommends them for dogs in the hot zones. I do know that there were a bunch of dogs dying from lepto in nearby New York state (though the vaccine does not protect from all strains of the disease).
I do think if you intend on competing you may be required to have the major shots just to be let on the grounds.
I know vaccines are controversial, but I also know how much the human lifespan has increased since the advent of vaccines. Common childhood diseases that used to wipe out families are now almost unheard of.
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Oops, can't edit posts on this computer, but I should have said my vet only recommends the two controversial vaccines for dogs who go out into the woods, drink from streams, etc.
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Permalink Reply by christy fry on
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I own a book called Treating and Preventing Cancer in your Dog I can't remember the authors name as it's currently on loan. The author spends some time talking about vaccines and over vaccinations of todays canines....It's a very interesting topic to explore and I have chosen to no longer vacinate my 10yr old house cat...my canines get the norm given plus bordatello. I do beleive your aussie could have benefitted greatly by the changes you've made
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Permalink Reply by Joanna Kimball on
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I've done minimal vaccines for ten years, and never had any trouble. I do puppy K, I do training classes, I show, etc. My puppies get parvo and distemper only (adenovirus if we are doing a certain brand), rabies as close to 12 months as possible. They complete the puppy shots at 12-16 weeks and then get one booster as adults. Nothing else except rabies as required by law.
The core vaccines are parvo, distemper, and adenovirus; nothing else is considered essential except rabies. I know lots of people who do no vaccines at all; if you go that direction you need to be VERY prepared. The bigger immunology studies show that every single dog has antibodies to parvo by the time they are adults; in other words, if you don't vaccinate your dogs WILL get it. The question is how severely - some get it so lightly that they show no symptoms, some are horribly affected. In my group of friends who did not vaccinate at all, there were at least one or two clinical (hospitalized) parvo cases every year. For them it was worth it; for you it may not be.
When Dr. Dodds put out her reduced schedule it was considered quite risky and controversial... until Dr. Schultz, the nation's leading researcher on vaccinations in dogs (in other words, he's not holistic or fringey) came out with recommendations that are even slower and more minimal. Schultz would like you to do an eight-week and twelve-week shot, rabies once in the dog's life, and virtually no boosters. He's shown a duration of immunity of most vaccines that goes for the life of the dog. He's very involved right now in the Rabies Challenge Study, which will hopefully move rabies recommendations to every ten years from every three.
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Permalink Reply by Sky and Lyla on
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Thanks. I am not brave enough to go for the no vaccination, but I think I am ready to take the plunge into the seriously minimal schedule. I am the most concerned with whether or not my vet will be accepting of my decision. Also, I believe the obedience school I go to requires yearly boosters, and I'm positive my dog's daycare/boarding does. I haven't figured out yet how I'm going to get around that one. I have thought offering to do a titer to satisfy them, but from what I've read a titer will really only show antibodies if they've been exposed to the virus recently. Any ideas?
For my two dogs, one had all his puppy shots as recommend by his vet (which I think was 4 series from the vet we were going to at the time) and then his rabies at 16 and booster for parvo, distemper and rabies at 12 months. So he shouldn't need anymore other than our required rabies shots, correct? And my Corgi had her puppy shots as recommend (I think 3 series) and rabies at 16 weeks, and hasn't had her one year boosters yet. What should she be getting at one year?
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I would do a parvo/distemper (plus adenovirus if your vet recommends). My vet uses the new Merial Recombitek vaccines, which were developed specifically to have a lower side effect rate, so that's what we use. But there are several companies making the "core" combo, which some vets will call the "3-in-1" shot. You have to be careful to specifically ask what the vaccine is, because many vets will call the 5-in-1 or even 7-in-1 combos the "distemper" shot. You want just parvo and distemper/adenovirus.
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Do you do a monthly treatment for heartworms, or do you use a holistic treatment for that as well?
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No, I use ivermectin. Not monthly, though; every 45-60 days. Heartworm is one of those things that you can't effectively prevent with herbal stuff unless you use the true poisons (black walnut and stuff like that). The tiny dose of ivermectin you need to protect them is actually a lot safer.
I try to use whatever is safest, not necessarily whatever is most "natural." Herbal wormers are a lot harsher on the dog than using pyrantel or fenbendazole, because the chemical wormers are poorly absorbed (do not end up in the bloodstream; they just do what they need to do in the digestive tract and then out they go). So I'd rather use Safeguard than pennyroyal. I stay away from Revolution (and Advantix and ProMeris), though, because they contain meds that are absorbed. I often end up giving two or three medications rather than one, because I try to treat only one problem at a time. Heartworm gets the tiny dose of ivermectin, intestinal worms get pyrantel, ticks get fipronil (Frontline), rather than trying to address them all with a much larger dose of absorbed ivermectin (Revolution).
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Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on
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At 1 year from her last shots my vet does a rabies which after that will be every 2 years and then the yearly
DA2P-PV.
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Permalink Reply by Mary on
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Ooooh this is a great topic. I'm excited to see where this goes. I don't think I'd ever go completely without vaccinations. Nibbler had her puppy series and I think she gets a new one each year. Also her rabies vaccine. Other than that I don't know if anything else is very necessary. She had a bordotella (spelling?) and it's booster before we started taking her to the dog park and training, but as she is getting older I'm doubting it's necessity. I'd prefer doing as few vaccines as possible, I think even some are claiming that it raises the risk of cancer in dogs?
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We did puppy series, then booster at one year, then every three after that. Rabies is also every three years, but I believe there was an extra one needed thrown in their somewhere.
When I sent in my TDI paperwork showing no booster since 1 year, they did not give me a hard time. I haven't boarded since his last set of shots passed the one-year anniversary either so I don't know what they would say, but I think the three-year protocol, while not universal, has become widespread enough that many places requiring updated vaccinations would accept the three-year. I don't know about the titer testing in lieu of proof of vaccine; I imagine each establishment would follow their own guidelines.
As far as stopping vaccinations for geriatric animals as my vet recommends.... I really don't know how kennels and stuff would respond, since the cat is never boarded or anything.
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It appears to me that vets are now suggesting more and more vaccines! Sounds like the drug industry is getting into the animal business too! I give my dogs that I don't breed the DA2P+PV plus rabies.I think this is all they need for classes but my dogs that go to classes also have the extra shots! The breeding dogs get a couple extra! I have talked with several people that must give their dogs several other shots the last one I heard of is something for their teeth! I am hesitant on any vaccine including some of the human ones although some are needed! I always worry about how these drugs affect our animals as I still believe that my one cat died from liver/kidney damage and I swear it was due to the liquid flea medicine I gave him! I could go on and on...but I won't!
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