Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rachael & Waffle on March 1, 2011 at 10:09pm

From what I understand about DM testing, between 75 and 80% of corgis test At-Risk for DM.  A good amount of those don't ever come down with DM, some come down fast, some come down very slow.  My breeder tests for DM and most of her dogs test positive.  She has one dog going down with it now-- it started in October or November, and now she's lost all use of her hindquarters.  My breeder suspected she would be gone by now, but she's still here!  My breeder is also CONVINCED that good diet is key to slowing or even preventing DM from happening at all, along with a myriad of other diseases.

 

More breeders can test for DM, but removing dogs that test At-Risk from the gene pool introduces a whole host of new problems. Also, At-Risk dogs don't get DM for sure, so there's no real reason (as of yet) to do so.  

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Beth on March 1, 2011 at 10:17pm

I am sorry to hear about your Rosie but glad she's learning to use her cart.  I can't offer any info on caring for a DM dog, but there are some other groups out there that someone might direct you to.

 

As far as breeding, I think a lot of breeders are being extremely cautious about testing.  According to OFA,

 

http://www.offa.org/stats_dna.html?test=DM

 

52% of Corgis are "At Risk", meaning they carry two copies of the gene and can potentially come down with DM.  Yet only a tiny single-digit percent of Corgis ever get DM, which means there is more going on than just this gene.

 

39% of tested Corgis are Carriers (one copy of gene).

 

Only 9% of tested Corgis are Clear.

 

Breeding all Carriers or At-Risks to that 9% that is clear would devastate the breed and could create a monster, with some other disease showing up that is much more prevalent or strikes young dogs down.  

Even breeding just to the 39% Carriers would wipe out more than half the gene pool.  I think most are proceeding cautiously until there is more info. 

 

Here's a good article on what can happen if breeders are very aggressive in getting rid of a disease that is wide-spread:

 

http://www.akcchf.org/canine-health/your-dogs-health/when-good-dogs...

 

It's also difficult to sell puppies when you say "5 of these pups are at risk and 3 are carriers.  I'm keeping 2 carriers for my program, so here is your at-risk puppy!"    So it's quite possible breeders are watching and acting but keeping results to themselves.   Not being a breeder, I can't know for sure, but the last one I asked about it said their approach was to see what further research showed about possible modifier genes or environmental factors.

 

Good luck with your girl.  She reminds me of my Madison.  I hope you get some good advice on support groups out there.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by John Wolff on March 2, 2011 at 12:50am

There are several DM threads on this site.  I take an interest in this because I'm a research tech in a medical genetics lab that works on human inherited neurologic diseases.  DM in canines is caused by/linked to a mutation in the SOD1 gene which causes ALS (Lou Gehrig's Disease) in humans.  It is progressive and invariably fatal.  Check out Wendt Worth Corgis (recent DM clear litter) and Kathleen Mallery, both on this site.  I'm sure there are others.

It's not simple.  Because ~66% of pems are at-risk (AA) and very few are clear (GG) -- the A allele frequency is about 75% in Pems -- it's not a simple matter of breeding only clear dogs.  This could create a genetic bottleneck and create unintended consequences, further inbreeding, and lose a lot of valuable corgi genetic material.  Review your high school biology -- Punnett squares and crossovers, wiki it -- and you'll see how breeders can breed GG to AA or AG dogs and get no affected pups -- AG x AG should yield about only 25% AA at-risk pups, and this might be worth risking in some cases to preserve valuable genetic material.  I'm guessing that some valuable corgi traits may be tightly linked (close on the chromosome to) that A allele, which is why it's so frequent (this is a guess, may be wrong).  Breeders might get lucky and eventually de-link the valuable corgi traits from the A allele -- eventually, there will be crossovers between the A allele and whatever corgi traits we want to preserve.

So don't necessarily insist on breeders who breed only GG clear dogs, but do look for breeders who are aware and knowledgeable and testing and have a coherent strategy for weeding out the A allele without losing all the valuable genetic material that's currently linked to it.  If only one parent is GG clear, no pups should be AA at-risk.

I'm always touched by a corgi on wheels -- it shows so much love at a glance -- Rosie looks like Gwynnie.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Beth on March 2, 2011 at 10:14am

John, one of the videos I saw had the researcher suggesting that because genetic prevalence is so high, what might be a reasonable goal now is that breeders who have had DM dogs (as opposed to DM genetics) in their lines might start trying to breed towards carriers and away from At Risk, but those that don't have DM showing up in their lines might take a more conservative approach to protect genetic diversity.  At least that's how I recall.

 

 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by John Wolff on March 2, 2011 at 1:29pm

Yeah that's basically what I was trying to say.  There may be some unknown modifier genes out there that are preventing some AA dogs from developing DM. Remember that this scince/technology is still in its infancy and we don't know the whole story.

Got a link to that video?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Bev Levy on March 2, 2011 at 9:38am

Aww she looks great! I am in awe of your commitment and also hope no one ever has this happen to their beautiful corgi. I don't really understand the debate about DM and hope I never need to know more. Meanwhile, my very best to you and Rosie.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jennifer Markley on March 2, 2011 at 1:23pm

I am pretty sure that my corgi mix Dillon had it.  I had toput him down at 16, when he got to the point where he couldn't get up and really was so demented he didn't know who anybody was.  It started about a year and a half before that when he started shaking in his hind-quarters.  The vet thought he was in pain, but the pain meds made no difference.  Then we tried a drug for cognitive dysfunction (people alzheimers), but that didn't make any difference either.  Then he thought it was because his tail was broken.  (I got him from the humane society at 8 months old, he got dumped off there at 3 months.  Someone had kicked him so hard it had broken his tail completely away from his body before then...he never had any control of it--it hung down his whole life).  So, needless to say, that wasn't the problem either.  He progressed from the shaking, to difficulty walking, to not being able to get up on his own.  It was very sad and very hard to watch.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Andrea De Leo on March 4, 2011 at 6:20pm

I have experienced DM first hand with my late corgi.

There is another group on yahoo

 

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/degenerativemyelopathylist/ that I like. If you ever want someone to chat with please feel free to contact me! :)
I can totally sympathize with what you are going through!
All my best to you and Rosie!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Nicola Porter on March 4, 2011 at 6:43pm

Kinda wonder now if my Maxx had it, he had really elevated liver levels indicating damaged liver but also he was having trouble getting up. Then he started piddling on himself/lying there not knowing he was piddling. This was quite a short ride. About 6 months from when we noticed his liver levels to him going to rainbow bridge. He was sent to rainbow bridge with his loved ones by him. I miss him.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Donald Till on March 4, 2011 at 7:03pm

Genie had that - I think she was 10 1/2 years old.  We had the wheel chair and a sling.  In general around the house she got around just fine dragging her back side.  Eventually we would sling her up and put her in the yard, sometimes she took care of business from the sling and other times without it. She would eventually make her way back to the house.    For walks the wheelchair was essential.  We had 7 dogs around here when she passed and up until the end she enjoyed playing with the other dogs.  A strange thing was in the pool her back legs seemed to function perfectly so we got her into the pool as often as possible.  We had her for 18 months after the diagnosis.  We had vet into our home to put to sleep after some period of time after the onset of troubled breathing and incontenence. 

• ▶ Reply