Introducing an Adult Part 2: Now with update!
Madison has been with us three weeks now, and I am uncertain about a few things.
As I mentioned in earlier posts, she was here on a trial from the breeder where we got Jack. We've had Jack since he's a puppy and he's nearly two-and-a-half. He has always loved other dogs, there are very few he meets who don't respond with enthusiasm to his overtures, and given a choice he'd prefer dog company to human company.
Madison is going on 5. She came from a show breeder with a lot of dogs, but she was a housedog who had the run of the house all day and was also loose in the house at night.
She has fit in fine with the human part of our household, and warmed up very quickly. She loves walks and cuddles on the couch. She mind us and is easy to handle; I've brushed her and cleaned her teeth, she will wait when I put down her food bowl, she is good on the leash and in the car.
However, she seems to almost completely ignore Jack most of the time. He was like a kid at Christmas when we brought her home; the first morning when we let her out of the crate, he got this gleeful look on his face like "She's still here!!!" When I would come home from work and let her out, he'd run to see her before he'd come to see me.
She, however, has not returned the favor. She walks right past him most of the time as if he weren't there. She ignores his invitations to play, does not sniff him, will only briefly touch noses when he initiates the maneuver but then trots away. He will move to be closer to her when they are dozing and napping during the day, but she does not seem to do the same.
I thought Jack might be jealous of us giving attention to another dog, but the opposite has become true: Jack will wait patiently while I brush her, pet her, or clean her teeth. The most he will do is come and lie next to me. Madison tries to nudge her way in between me and Jack if I am doing something with him and constantly needs to be told to wait her turn.
And now as I mentioned in detail in another thread, she has started mounting him whenever he tries to play. He'll back her off and she goes right back at him. If I stop her, she will stop but then starts again next time he's playing. And when he finally got tired of it and growled at her (first time I ever heard him growl at another dog) she snarled back at him.
Is this a sign of things to come, or just a transition period? I will be honest: part of the reason I wanted another dog was to be a playmate for Jack, and Maddie so far shows zero interest in playing with him. There has not been a single game of chase or wrestling since she's been here. The first couple weeks I figured she was lacking confidence, and that seemed to be the case as she would look a little unsure if he'd barrel past. I can understand that, as she's in a new environment and probably was missing the dog friends she had (several of whom were actually her siblings).
But as she has gained confidence, things seem to be heading in the wrong direction between her and Jack. I have read other posters who introduced a new dog and the two were playing within a day or two.
Is it reasonable to expect the situation would improve after they adjust to each other? Or is it (as I fear) a bad sign that she seems intent on pretending he does not exist, except to try to halt his own efforts to play?
I need to call Kandy and talk to her, but I have been ill the past two days and am not quite up to a long phone conversation today; hopefully I can talk to her tomorrow.
As I mentioned in earlier posts, she was here on a trial from the breeder where we got Jack. We've had Jack since he's a puppy and he's nearly two-and-a-half. He has always loved other dogs, there are very few he meets who don't respond with enthusiasm to his overtures, and given a choice he'd prefer dog company to human company.
Madison is going on 5. She came from a show breeder with a lot of dogs, but she was a housedog who had the run of the house all day and was also loose in the house at night.
She has fit in fine with the human part of our household, and warmed up very quickly. She loves walks and cuddles on the couch. She mind us and is easy to handle; I've brushed her and cleaned her teeth, she will wait when I put down her food bowl, she is good on the leash and in the car.
However, she seems to almost completely ignore Jack most of the time. He was like a kid at Christmas when we brought her home; the first morning when we let her out of the crate, he got this gleeful look on his face like "She's still here!!!" When I would come home from work and let her out, he'd run to see her before he'd come to see me.
She, however, has not returned the favor. She walks right past him most of the time as if he weren't there. She ignores his invitations to play, does not sniff him, will only briefly touch noses when he initiates the maneuver but then trots away. He will move to be closer to her when they are dozing and napping during the day, but she does not seem to do the same.
I thought Jack might be jealous of us giving attention to another dog, but the opposite has become true: Jack will wait patiently while I brush her, pet her, or clean her teeth. The most he will do is come and lie next to me. Madison tries to nudge her way in between me and Jack if I am doing something with him and constantly needs to be told to wait her turn.
And now as I mentioned in detail in another thread, she has started mounting him whenever he tries to play. He'll back her off and she goes right back at him. If I stop her, she will stop but then starts again next time he's playing. And when he finally got tired of it and growled at her (first time I ever heard him growl at another dog) she snarled back at him.
Is this a sign of things to come, or just a transition period? I will be honest: part of the reason I wanted another dog was to be a playmate for Jack, and Maddie so far shows zero interest in playing with him. There has not been a single game of chase or wrestling since she's been here. The first couple weeks I figured she was lacking confidence, and that seemed to be the case as she would look a little unsure if he'd barrel past. I can understand that, as she's in a new environment and probably was missing the dog friends she had (several of whom were actually her siblings).
But as she has gained confidence, things seem to be heading in the wrong direction between her and Jack. I have read other posters who introduced a new dog and the two were playing within a day or two.
Is it reasonable to expect the situation would improve after they adjust to each other? Or is it (as I fear) a bad sign that she seems intent on pretending he does not exist, except to try to halt his own efforts to play?
I need to call Kandy and talk to her, but I have been ill the past two days and am not quite up to a long phone conversation today; hopefully I can talk to her tomorrow.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Stephanie on
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Ugh I know Bear has terrible dog to dog manners - he runs right up face to face with other dogs... And he's gotten put in his place many times by adult dogs. I know he is still a puppy (not quite 9 months old) but I've always wondered how to you teach another species social skills for their own species LOL.
I think you, Jack and Maddie are coming along nicely. It's never easy to add a new elements to anyone's life, they'll figure it out with your help and by learning each other's boundaries.
thanks for sharing all of this - it will be handy as we bring little ms. goldy home.
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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Yeah, Jack did when he was a pup too and then he got air-snapped at twice when he was around a year old or so and that was the end of his doing that. He will still do it if the dog is younger than him and initiates the "I'll bounce on your head!" game, but he's only 2 and a half himself so who knows when he gets older what he'll think? Otherwise he sniffs butts like a good boy. Just recently, he has started play-wrestling over-exuberant big puppies (labs and the like) right onto their backs. He never did that when he was younger. If they are too rough for him (and that is really pretty rough; he doesn't like if they bounce straight up and land near him) he'll usually put them over once or twice and if they don't get the hint he comes and sits on my feet!
I don't think we can really teach our dogs how to handle dog-to-dog interactions; they really learn it from each other. Adolescent pups like Bear are at the age where they are not quite pups and not quite adults, so they sometimes get signals crossed.
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So true - and it doesn't help that his BFF that he plays with EVERYday (since he was 8 weeks old) is a boxer - dogs not really known for their social skills LOL
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I was just going to do a blog post but thought maybe in the future someone else would find this info helpful when introducing another dog, so I'll add it to the original thread.
We finally have liftoff on play!
This morning when we were waking up, I heard Jack frapping like crazy and Maddie barking. It sure sounded like two sets of running dog legs, but Jack makes such a ruckus when he fraps it's hard to be sure and Maddie will sometimes jump up on the couch and bark at him.
Then while we were eating breakfast and reading the paper, I heard doggie noises and looked over and there was Maddie, lying on her back locked in some pretty nifty wrestling moves with Jack, play-biting and all. When they disengaged he took off and she flew after him, barking and jumping at him and play-biting. I was so thrilled! I watched them out of the corner of my eye so they wouldn't think I was staring and stop. Of course she was done playing before he was ready to stop, but after a last few play-bows and barks at her he left it at that.
I can't say how happy I am! For the record, it is exactly 7 weeks from her arrival, and just over the last two she is a much brighter and more sparkly dog. She gets toys more, bounces after them more, and vocalizes more.
I really think I underestimated how big a transition it is for an adult to come into a new home, when she had a happy home to begin with. It took awhile for her to be confident with her place in her new "pack" and I think that kept her reserved and cautious when interacting with our resident dog. Most of the time when I've heard of people bringing in a second dog, it's the resident dog who is stand-offish or snarky and the new dog who keeps trying to initiate interactions, but I guess it's just not always that way. I also think the fact that Madison is older than Jack played into it; often the older dogs are the dominant one, but in our case Maddie is a more submissive dog than Jack and she needed a chance to sort out where things stood.
Thanks everyone for your advice, feedback, and encouragement! It's so helpful to hear everyone else's experiences.
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Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on
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All right way to go Jack and Maddie! I'm glad you figured it all out and Beth you've got to be soooo happy!
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Permalink Reply by Judi, Dawn, Soffie & Griffyn on
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Yay, Beth, Jack and Maddie!!! I have a big smile on my face envisioning the "Liftoff on Play"!! How great it is to have that breakthrough! And thanks so much for sharing! I know how much fun it is for us to watch Soffie & Griffyn play together and I can hardly wait till Soffie is back to full form so they can pick up where they've had to leave off.
Hope you get some video of Jack and Maddie frapping together. I'll look forward to seeing that!!!
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My husband's the video camera guy, so I'll have to have him on standby. I also want to get them taped with that soccer ball!
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Permalink Reply by Nicole, Stanley and STELLA! on
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Yay! I had a similar feeling when my roommate's dog, Annie, and Stella started playing together. Stella still does the puppy "face-lunge" that you mentioned earlier in your post, but they have been interacting SO much better in just the past few weeks. Actually, I have Stella in her crate beside me right now and Annie came over and is sleeping beside her! I also had a similar "breakthrough" with Stella and one of my mom's dogs, the female Shi Tzu, last week. It's such a relief to see them finally get along---and sometimes seems like it takes a LONG time---but it is totally worth it. :) I also think that age is a big factor. Both dogs are significantly older that Stella, Annie is 13 and Jade is 10.
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Permalink Reply by Bev Levy on
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Beth, I am so glad they are playing! I guess it just took a little time. I find with a multi-dog household that they have their ups and downs and get over the occasional downs very quickly. It is great fun to watch them play!
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I always love to watch dogs play with each other, and am amazed at how much they slow down when they play with us dumb humans so we can keep up! LOL
Maddie must have been saving up for today, because before we went hiking I took them out for a potty break. Our neighbor's Golden Retriever was out, and she and Jack always play "I'll bounce on your head!' but Maddie's been a bit afraid of the Golden (to be fair, she's HUGE for a retriever, and she does bounce). Well, today Maddie decided to bounce right back on her too.
It's almost like she woke up this morning and said "Right, today is the day I play with other dogs." LOL
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I'd say Maddie is finally "home"! : )
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