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Permalink Reply by Jonathan P, Kim N. and Bowser on May 18, 2010 at 12:51pm

You have to teach him biting is a HUGE NO. It has to be enforced 100% as a NO each and every time even if he is playfully nipping your hand. If you don't get him out of this biting habit it can lead to not just you but also others getting bit and this will be a major problem in the future as he gains his adult jaws.

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Permalink Reply by Natalie, Lance &Tucker on May 18, 2010 at 1:01pm

Hi Libby,

What you can do if your pup gets ahold of something that you dont want him to have is to trade him for something better, like a yummy treat. 12 weeks is young and lots and lots of practice will be needed. During your training sessions I would practice the drop it command with him and then immediately give a yummy treat that he absolutely loves. When you chase your pup to get something away from them, they think its a game and then they will turn it into one instead of dropping what you want them to.

Is he snapping when your trying to get something away from him, if so, that is called resource gurading. He doesnt want you taking away his treasure.

During play time I would make it fun but calm. I would also suggest you taking training classes with your pup.

Remember that if hes nipping because he is teething you need to direct him to the approriate chew toys to chew on. Hope this helps. :)

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Permalink Reply by Beth on May 18, 2010 at 1:03pm

Please remember a Corgi is a 30 pound dog developed to move cattle up the road, and do a little ratting on the side! They can be tenacious.

I am personlly fond of teaching "leave it" using the trade-up method. Work on him at home, and when he has a toy or something, hide some treats in your pocket (use something yummy like cheese or hot-dogs or liver treats) and wave the treat in front of his nose and say "leave it!" in a cheery voice. Do this a few times, then progress to saying "leave it" and immediately follow it with the waving treat. After a day or so you can likely progress to saying "leave it" first and then only giving the treat after pup drops the item.

You can then practice on walks, and try saying "leave it" before he goes for an item. Get him to focus back on you.

Your actions make sense in your own mind, but to a puppy, reaching and grabbing just up the ante and bring out a strong prey/play drive, that can lead to biting.

You also might want to enroll in a puppy kindergarten class. Good luck!

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Permalink Reply by Susan Stanton on May 18, 2010 at 1:27pm

I was going to say the same thing -- Ethel is a huge resource guarder, but I taught her leave it (slightly different method than Beths) and it's helped, it's no longer an issue. Also, when she was a new pup (9 weeks and up), when I fed her, I would sometimes hold the kibbles in my hand, feed her one by one, and put some in the bowl and let her eat, or mix the kibbles up in the bowl with my fingers while she was eating (if he's growling and snapping, skip that one). I never took anything AWAY, just got her used to the idea that it's okay for me to be handling things she's eating or wants to eat.

We did leave it by putting the treat on the ground and covering with our hands. Then, the pup comes up and sniffs and tries to paw at it and get it, and we say "leave it" just once, and wait for them to back up or stop, even for just a few seconds. As SOON as the pup does, we lift our hand and they get it. Pretty quickly they back up and stop immediately. Then you progress to putting the treat on the ground, hand nearby but not covering it, and say leave it, covering it quickly if they go to get it. Once they stop trying, they get it. This has worked really really well for both my guys and has made it so that I can get anything at all, even the most precious bones or revolting rotting woods objects, away from them with no problems.

Puppy k or early obedience should also give you some "leave it" lessons, too, if you're not sure you're teaching it right, or if he's especially tough and determined. We also played the "trade up" game in puppy k -- playing with a toy, taking it away and IMMEDIATELY giving him something better, like a tasty treat. Again, the idea is that he gets used to the idea that if you take something away, it's a good thing!

Good luck.

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Permalink Reply by John Wolff on May 18, 2010 at 1:40pm

I usually keep a prescription screw-cap pill bottle with tiny yummy treats handy -- small enough for a pocket, contains odors -- with this, you'll always have a bribe handy for trading-up ("Here, pup, drop those toxic mortgages, and I'll give you this delicious taxpayer cash"). :-)
We used a unique treat, bacon, for the Emergency Recall training ONLY. Really messy without a good container.
I've heard it's a good idea NOT to use their crate for isolation/punishment -- you want the crate to be their safe refuge.

Maybe "aggression" is not quite the right word; maybe it's more "lack of bite-inhibition". How old was he when the litter was separated? Many people send pups off at 8 weeks, but I've heard that pups learn some social things, including bite inhibition, if the littler is kept together longer. Sounds like you need to work on the bite-inhibition. One strategy I heard about is dramatic over-reaction: if he nips you, even gently, you emit a horrendous "YEEEOW!!!" right in his ear; hopefully he learns, "Gee, these humans are really fragile, I'd better be careful." Make sure NOBODY tolerates biting from him; make sure you're all on the same page.
Rule is: you can initiate mouth/tooth contact anytime, putting your fingers into his mouth etc., but he cannot initiate tooth contact EVER.

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Permalink Reply by Michelle on May 18, 2010 at 10:30pm

Good advice....we used the over-reaction method with the biting and it was very effective! Libby, also remember to stay calm...the little devil can sense when you are getting wound up. I personally believe that adds to the "let me hang on this stinkgram she wants it BBBAAADDD!" attitude that he is exhibiting. Hang in there he is just pushing you stay calm, stay firm.

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Permalink Reply by Bev Levy on May 18, 2010 at 4:06pm

You are getting good advice. I will reinforce the need for classes. It will be the best money you can spend. Be sure to chose someone that is very positive in their training methods. Corgis can often have a bit of an attitude and if you have an assertive one being very physical in your punishments will just make them more aggressive. I was successful using a really dramatic high pitched yelp when Sparty bit me (we called him Jaws for a while). If he continued he got a time out (very short) in the kitchen. From your puppy's perspective remember he has not quite figured out that you are the boss and he is just trying to do what he wants. If you try to stop him without the right ground work he will treat you as he would a sibling. He has a strong will and only knows that he must assert it. Training can begin now. Have him sit for meals, teach him leave it using great treats, have him give you something in return for a treat and then give it right back to him. This type of training will help him see you as his leader and greatly reduce the chance that he will bite. Stay patient he will outgrow these stages. My Sparty was a real stinker as a pup but after classes and a few adjustments in how I worked with him he grew up to be a very well mannered and affectionate dog. I also agree with Cesar, dogs need exercise so don't forget that part!

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Permalink Reply by Allison Musick on May 18, 2010 at 4:50pm

this is just my opinion, but i also would not play fight with him. in my experience it just gets the dog on a path of excitement that escalates higher and higher and can make it hard to reel them back in when you're ready to be finished and do something else. they get out of control more easily when their energy is engaged that way.

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Permalink Reply by Stephanie on May 18, 2010 at 8:36pm

Let me start by saying, I feel your pain - literally. As John said below, staying with the litter to learn these things is huge.

I picked Bear up from the breeder at 9 weeks. I picked Goldy up from the same breeder at 6 weeks (there were some extenuating circumstances).

Bear hardly ever puts his teeth on me, and when he does accidentally, he immediately stops and licks my hand.

Goldy was a biter at 6 weeks. The day I brought her home we went to the vet, she bit the vet and drew blood - she looked rabid on that table growling, biting and freaking out. Two days later she drew blood on my hand when I tried to remove something from her mouth out on a walk.

She is now SUPER at the vet. We practiced vet exams on my kitchen table everyday for weeks and weeks!

But, she still uses her teeth way too much when we play. If I'm on the couch, she's a toe chewer/biter. We're working on the OW and walking away from her, but we're not making much progress.

You've already gotten some great advice, so I won't add more. Just wanted to empathize with you.

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Permalink Reply by shelley power on May 18, 2010 at 10:48pm

You are getting all great advice here!! I can't say it any better after 30 years of working with dogs, both bred and rescued, I have to reiterate Johns comment about "bite inhibition" Humans take pups away from litters way too early hence they fail to learn the innate skills that siblings and mother teaches pups. Let me caution, first you have to understand how tedious finding the source of the problem is , and it gets harder and harder to figure out the older the dog becomes,then it is repetition repetition and more repetition. Trade up , or the concept in RE TEACHING behaviors, is essential! You can yell no forever in a day ... but in order to get a behavior to become extinct, you must understand how the learning works. In dog terms. so when pups don't learn the skills in a dog environment at the appropriate age, humans have to teach by "replacing " the unwanted behavior with a better behavior. Its hard to help you without seeing the interaction, but in most cases there is always more to the problem to figure out.
ALL the comments I have read here are in my opinion excellent! BUT you have to understand the concepts that make these corrections work. One I especially picked up on was the comment about avoiding "play fighting" I agree.. this may very well be the source of the beginning of this problem or at the very least escalated the behavior. And part of that escalation without replacement of the behavior is often resource guarding That is not to say that after the pup matures and becomes balanced, that you will never be able to "play" with him, as dogs can and do "play fight" but with an excitable pup with less than acceptable learned inhibitions, play fighting, and games like that play on their natural instinct towards territorial ism and protecting should never be used as play..Put all the advice you have been given here in the right order and be consistent, work one behavior at a time, be prepared to spend lots and lots of time working with it. Dogs can become confused very easily , but in normal situations are inclined to want to please the handler if they understand what is wanted and expected.Find an appropriate secure area for the pup to run and get out some of the energy, and leash walk leash walk and more leash walk, then have teaching sessions:) Dont give up and one more thing some very wise person told me when I was young, and working with horses, was if I get frustrated, put the horse away and come back when I can be calm and more patient. I never forgot those words and have found them useful when dealing with some particularly difficult dogs. I agree also with never using crate for bad dog area. I have several dogs and when one is particularly ignoring rules and acting up, I use a gate and separate it from the others in the kitchen for a time out. I dont yell or act mad , just simply call the dog into the kitchen and close gate.The dog has no clue what time out is and does not like being separated from the rest but the acting out is usually due to over stimulation so the time out simply serves to give the dog some quiet time and less over stimulation. he doesnt consider it punishment, just learns that when he becomes calm he is rewarded by being let out with the others again. The same thing is repeated every time the dog exhibits the hyper behavior, assuming proper excersise, and soon learns to be calm in the house with the other dogs..I dont necessarily ignore the dog in time out but only interact sparingly and quietly.As soon as the dog is able to control himself he is allowed back out with the others. This exersise simply allowed the dog to learn SELF CONTROL. And segregating a young dog is as much about protecting him from the end of his own natural curiousity until he has learned more , than actually correcting a particular behavior. If you can get to understand the circular nature of these concepts , and it took me some trial and error, you will find your training efforts more and more successful!!!
The pup is young at 12 weeks so if you begin now and stick with it you will do fine:) Basic obedience at 12 weeks is helpful. Try sitting on floor with treat in hand closed and above and away and say "sit" move hand toward pupand most will sit immediately just to look up at treat. soon as he sits give treatand praise. but if he doesnt , just wait he may do a zillion other things till he finally figures it out or maybe just gives up and sits, in any case as soon as the behavior you want comes, treat! amazing how fast they figure it out and repeat . The dog is not "reasoning this out, they are acting on instinct to to get something they want . Not all agree, but if you wait long enough for simple behaviors, they come. Then always be consistant and pair the wanted behavior with the same command , and gradually up the ante requiring more and more complex behaviors.
Over the years this was both fun and frustrating for me. I learned as much as my dogs , and even now as I go to shows and watch rally events I am still amazed at the dogs capacity to learn obedience. With unwanted behavior, "teething" for example I have used another trick in young pups with no bite inhibition, and it looks stupid hahahaha and I think my neighbors think I am being killed sometimes, and my parrot has learned unfortunately to imitate my screeches hahahaha but if pup bites grabs me with mouth, I immediately emit a high pitched screech and turn my back.as soon as pup comes back to investigate the sudden noise and does NOT mouth my offered hand I treat, or appropriate chew toy, and praise. Pups will get into everything. baby proof where ever he will be for any dangerous items. and when and only when you see him with an inappropriate item in mouth, offer a high value item, and say drop it, give, or some trigger word and simply wait for him to drop it to get the offered treat. praise as soon as object dropped, and give high value treat.It for example does no good to correct a dog for example when you come home and find tissue or garbage all over the house or couch cusion unstuffed. The dog will cower and look guilty only because you are acting displeased he has no idea why. and the behavior will not stop even if you yell and discipline drag him to the item, etc he then learns oh if human see it human displeased so I only do it under porch or otherwise out of sight. behavior remains until human replaces the exact behavior with with better one.
I have a paper shredder, so I only put paper where he COULD find it and as soon as he took it I pounced in with a high value treat and asked for the paper in return. Only when he gave up the paper item did he get this terrific treat . eventually I could leave tissues on coffee table even while not home and he couldnt care less, the higher value food item, paired with my visible pleasure and praise when he gave up the paper item, made the paper shredding behavior "extinct" I like to call it, but it takes lots of time!!! With behavior extinction, it is important to reinforce consistantly, replace with a better behavior.. In the dogs mind the tissue shredding became extinct only because the need to shred paper became less andless important when REPLACED with a behavior that got a high value reward. Even in training wild animal behavior , amazing adaptations to being around humans can be achieved with positive reinforcement and the concept of behavior replacement.
in any age dog, replacing a bad learned behavior is always harder than than teaching new additional behaviors to a balanced dog. but it was hard for me to get to understand why commands and "punishment" consequences" stuff doesnt work like it does in humans.. My kids had choices and consequences. if they chose wrong there were consequences leaving them to learn that privileges were taken away if they did not behave, but dogs dont learn that way. they dont have the complex reasoning skills we humans have. no amount for example in abuse cases, of beatings will ever teach the dog anything except fear. and in most cases aggression. but what works is behavior modification in replacing an unwanted behavior with a positive wanted one and a reward with value appropriate to the wanted behavior.In pups and in some abuse cases, confidence is a major help in replacement of unwanted behaviors., Pups, some pups are less confident than others and abused dogs always have no confidence. So same theory seems to work with both, in correcting unwanted behavior. The more confident the animal becomes the more it will repeat the behaviors that please its handler.Simple basic obedience training and simple tricks( shake paw etc) are things that build confidence in most dogs.
so I ramble sorry:)) have fun and good luck!!!

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Permalink Reply by Joanna Kimball on May 18, 2010 at 11:24pm

You've been getting good advice - this is a complete lack of bite inhibition, not "real" aggression. Puppies with intact bite inhibition will sometimes object inappropriately but they never bite down.

You also have to realize that you're making him feel VERY defensive and threatened. If you walk into a room, get in a buffet line, grab your crab puffs, and the person next to you yells, knocks them to the ground, and then says "NO!" right in your face when you look up at them, that doesn't lead to a conclusion of "Oh, I get it, the crab puffs are evil." No, it makes you think "You are a crazy person and I need to grab my crab puffs and run as fast as I can into the corner." Dogs are the same way. Something that smells and tastes good can't possibly be bad; what is bad is the person going nuts about it.

Carry treats that are so delicious that he goes nuts for them and practice "trade" forty or fifty times a day, until he's spitting out anything as fast as he can as soon as you hit the "t" in the word.

However, that's not going to solve the basic and vital lack of bite inhibition. For that you need socialization with other dogs (other dogs are MUCH better at teaching it than we are) and an extremely consistent rule in your house of zero mouth on skin. He needs to believe that human skin is like eggshells and if he even TOUCHES it you get all offended and the game is over and you walk away.

When I have litters of puppies, at six weeks they know very little about keeping their mouths soft. They make each other scream and cry all the time. By eight weeks it's a completely different story; they're able to play for hours without crying. That's what makes those two weeks so vital, and why it's such a terrible idea to get puppies much before eight weeks. Bad breeders are always trying to unload puppies before that, because they're eating on their own and they're getting messy and loud (and wow, are they). But you HAVE to keep them together until they learn not to bite, or you end up with a lot of stories like yours.

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Permalink Reply by Chris West on May 19, 2010 at 12:31am

I am so glad I stopped to read this post! We have had a lot of trouble with Frosty being play-bitey and mouthing us all the time. I don't wonder now if it is because he was a one-pup litter so he never learned about bite inhibition?

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