Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Bax & Zigs & Rosie on December 21, 2011 at 5:19pm

That sounds very frustrating. Have you tried the diet supplement that supposedly makes their poop taste awful? I never used it before so I don't know if it works or not, but it's out there.

The only other piece of advice I can give is that you must be patient with him. Grabbing about the mouth area can lead to some bad outcomes, like the bite you sustained. I know I can think of a specific time when my temper was short and Ziggy did something bad and I reacted in a way that I regretted later. Because I had to go for his mouth because he had something bad in it, I got bit. The interaction didn't have any effect on his future behavior either. It just made me feel bad for reacting so quickly and violently, and for making him react in such a way where he accidentally bit me. It's gonna be a long journey. I hope you can both get through it.

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Permalink Reply by Sandy Stickney on December 21, 2011 at 6:22pm

Hi Brittani,  I would suggest looking for a dog training club in your area that may also offer classe (for instance, I am in Central Florida and took classes with the Orlando Dog Training Club.)  They may have more experienced trainers that may be able to help with more complicated training issues.  You might also want to try to check into one on one training and see if it is in fact too expensive.  I found for myself that one session with at home trainer was extremely helpful, and while the cost was equivalent to maybe an 8 week class, it helped us with very quick results (not quite as serious as your issues, though, so may not necessarily work for you-just something to consider.)  I know you will also get some training tips from some experienced corgi owners on here.  Please hang in there.  It sounds like you are having a rough time, but don't give up!  However, I definitely would not go the wait-til-he-outgrows-it strategy...he may develop some bad habits that will be harder to break down the road.

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Permalink Reply by Laura and Tommy Jefferson on December 21, 2011 at 6:40pm

Hi Brittani, I'm so sorry for your troubles! I don't have any experience with this stuff but I agree with Sandy to seek out a more experienced trainer.  

Tommy has been through puppy, intermediate and advanced group classes at Petsmart - don't get me wrong, they have done him a world of good and we both LOVE going!!! I would recommend them to ANYONE.  But as you get into intermediate and advanced they are basically working towards taking their Canine Good Citizen test.  Nothing we have ever done would address any of the kind of behavior issues that you're up against ... at least not in their group classes!

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Permalink Reply by Jane on December 21, 2011 at 8:30pm

As Sandy said, one or two sessions with a private trainer might be a similar cost to an 8 week class and would target your specific needs. This is not something he will outgrow in my opinion. In the mean time I would google NILF training (nothing in life is free) and implement it immediately, both you and your husband.

What exactly are you using the vibrating collar for?

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Permalink Reply by Napolean (Joan and Gabby) on December 21, 2011 at 8:43pm

Here are some things I would suggest: Are you taking him out on daily walks? On those walks, if after it is done and he is not panting really hard and wanting to lay down in the shade, the walks need to be longer or require more strength to complete. Maybe he's just taking out all his frustrations on things he knows upsets you a lot. Maybe he's just doing those things to get your attention. When a corgi is tired, that lazy faze will dissapear within 2-4 hours and after that you must play or exercise with him or he'll go back to his own mischiefs. This really doesn't match with many dogs but it sounds like Nikko is very head strong and energetic. Maybe you could give him a job while walking. For example, I put packs on Napolean with maybe a rock or doggie bags on each side to weigh him down a little and make him work. If you continue to do this he will get calmer and is more likely to listen to you. You must continue this though for at least 5 days straight and then figure out times that work with you to walk him :)

I suggest when he starts to throw tantrums and eat poop (ew) just ignore. Don't look, say anything, and definitely don't touch him, it would be better if you walked away right when he drops to the floor to start a tantrum or when he runs to grab something. From your description he only does it to get your attention and not when your not around so walking away would make him realize your not paying attention and doing "bad" things will make you yell. You can also gain his trust more by training him with simple commands such as sit, down, stay, and heel. Maybe after that you can teach him more complex tricks to bring trust and courage :) Hope this helps! Good luck on training him.

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Permalink Reply by Bev Levy on December 21, 2011 at 8:56pm

I am with the Nothing in Life is Free suggestion. Google it, it is free and easy, just requires a commitment on your part (and your husbands). You are absolutely correct to compare him to a tantrum throwing child because that is exactly what he is doing. The poo eating can be corrected with a supplement but the behavior issues should be addressed right away. Obedience classes run by a positive trainer will also help a lot. Many corgis are not only very smart but also very strong willed. If you think about it, that attitude was probably a great for a hard working farm dog but really must be managed to allow the corgi to fill his proper place in your household. Forget the idea that he is protective of you...he thinks he owns you. That is upside down! You own him. Believe me he will be much happier when you take over. NILF It helped us a lot with my dominant corgi. My other one is just as easy going as can be but Sparty requires a little more work than the average dog but he is worth it and turned out to be a great but quirky family member.

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Permalink Reply by Beth on December 21, 2011 at 9:11pm

When he's eating feces in the yard after you stop him from doing something he wants to do, it's probably not because he knows it's "wrong."  It's probably comforting to him (gross, right???) and since he's stressed by being stopped from doing what he wants to do, he turns to that, just like many people stress-eat.  

As far as biting you when you went after something in his mouth, I would be careful about that but not necessarily see it as a sign of an aggressive dog.   The thing is, when we go after our dogs like this (and I've done it myself) some of them perceive that as an attack or quarrel over the food and lash out.  Even low-ranking dogs will sometimes protect what they already have in their mouths and it is not necessarily a sign of dominance.

When he nips at your husband, is he growling and giving a hard stare?  Is he baring his front teeth, with his lips puckered forward so that his lips cover his back teeth but not his front?  Or is he getting excited and barking/yapping and nipping without grabbing and holding?   If it's the former, then definitely consult a trainer tomorrow, and don't do anything til you talk to her.  A dog that uses offensive aggression against people in these situations can become dangerous.   If it's the latter, then that may be more jealousy/attention getting than dominance (in this case, inappropriate use of herding-type behavior).   I have one who will bark and grab toys whenever me and my husband hug.   He's jealous.    

So again if it's the former, you really have little choice but to get a private in-home trainer.  If it's the latter, you can take classes and talk to the trainer and have her give you tips on getting calmer, more polite behavior from your dog. 

As far as having a tantrum when you say "no" that is not unusual in working-type dogs in adolescence.  You want to stay calm and not escalate the challenge.  What Jack would do was bark at me then run laps of the house.   I would stand with arms over chest, legs shoulder-width apart, and not move or react to his tantrum.  When he finally calmed down he would come sit by me, and I would give him a quiet command and then praise him for complying.   In a sense he did outgrow it, but if handled incorrectly the problem will actually escalate rather than resolve.   Pick one calm response to his tantrum, stick with it and wait him out. 

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Permalink Reply by Brittani Swedberg on December 21, 2011 at 9:18pm

Sometimes it is a barking and nipping but sometimes he shows his teeth and puckers his lips and will lunge at my husband.  He has holes in some of his shorts from Nikko biting them.  We have started to just walk away from him when he does that and that seems to work.  My husband does need to chill out on the play time though.  I do not play a lot with Nikko but my husband does and my husband is high energy and moves a lot and will run up and down the stairs and Nikko will chase him.  I think he gets riled up and then his emotions fly and that's when he gets growly.  

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Permalink Reply by Beth on December 21, 2011 at 9:25pm

Uh-oh, sounds like your husband is the "bad guy" here.   Yes, he's encouraging the behavior in some circumstances and then getting upset with the dogs in others.   It might be time to have a calm talk with your husband about what it must seem like from the dog's point of view:  "Sometimes I can chase after you and it's fun and other times when I lunge at you you don't like it.  So confusing!"     It would be more appropriate for your husband to throw a frisbee or tennis ball, play soccer with Nikko, or have some vigorous games of tug.  Tug is ok if it's played only with designated tug toys AND the dog learns a nice release command.  It can help release that pent up energy and agility trainers use it all the time as a reward and a means to control drive.   Teach the dog to drop the tug toy by waving a treat in front of his nose and saying "leave it." Within a few attempts, say leave it first before producing the treat.   Most dogs get it in just a couple sessions.    If he hits you with his teeth playing tug, say "Ow!" and  the toy gets instantly removed and the game is over.   It helps them pay attention to where their teeth are.

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Permalink Reply by Beth on December 21, 2011 at 9:30pm

Does Nikko give your husband a look something like this before he lunges?  If so, I would honestly try to find a way to consult with a good trainer.  A positive one who has some sort of certifications.

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Permalink Reply by Beth on December 21, 2011 at 9:37pm

This thread has a good picture of a perk-eared dog showing an offensive pucker with no teeth.   Again, this is the sort of body language that indicates the dog is acting with intent and not out of general exuberance/excitement.  Notice too the hard stare.

http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/76588-what-red-dog.html

When Jack (my bossy dog) barks at what he perceives as threats outside the window, he puckers his lips forward and barks deeply.  When Maddie (my submissive dog) alert-barks, she draws the back corners of her lips all the way back, which indicates stress.   Whether or not you see teeth is not so important as whether the BACK corners of the lips are pushes forward (aggression) or drawn back (stress, play, smile, all sorts of things that can all show teeth too).

Again, if those back corners are pushing forward when he lunges I would get the best trainer I could find as soon as I could find her (or him).

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Permalink Reply by Di, Pazu, and Mochi the Bunny on December 22, 2011 at 5:56pm

Have you seen Victoria Stimwell's pug eating poop episode?  You can get it off Amazon.  I know you've worked on leaving it.  Just wondering if you've paired leaving poop with a treat for leaving it... you can probably find some small odorless bunny poop and teach Nikko to leave it and then get a really really nice treat.

 

And alpha dog generally will not ask a lower ranking dog to spit out what is in his mouth... I think dogs intrinsically know what is acceptable alpha dog behavior and what is not.  I wonder if going after their mouth will reflect that the "pack leader" (you) can be unpredictable...

 

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