chase me game
kirby has recently been playing the "chase me game" and no matter what i do he wont come back ( even when i have treats), this happens at home if he slips out the front door, when we are at the dog park (when he does come he just bolts past me) and i am concerned for his safety.... my 5 y.o. lab mix comes whenever i call her and her first owner used a shock collar on her. my mother now thinks we need one for him to curb this behavior. i am opposed to shock collars but i am at the end of my rope any suggestions????
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Natalie, Lance &Tucker on
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Hello Amberlie! How old is Kirby? It sounds like he may be young still. Does he know the sit and stay commands? I would work on those and also in front of any door, make him learn that he only goes out the door when you say its ok. (For safety purposes, I would attach a leash to his collar when working with him by the front door so when you can grab the leash if he tries to bolt out the door!) Also work on the come command inside as well. I would not bring him to a dog park unless he has these commands mastered!
If he ever gets ahold of something he isnt suppose to have make sure you trade him for something better and never make it a game of chase, that will just always make him run away from you. Teaching the leave it and drop it commands are very useful!
When you are practicing the stay command gradually work the time you expect him to stay. Dont expect him to stay for a minute straight right away
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Permalink Reply by Sky and Lyla on
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I heard a great training suggestion once... for dogs that need to learn a good recall, for a whole week, don't feed them at meal times but give them their kibble throughout the day, a couple pieces at a time, only when they respond to "come." The dog learns the only way I get to eat is if I come. I haven't tried it, but its supposed to really enforce the recall behavior.
Also, this is just my opinion, but I think that having herding breeds means our dogs should never be out without leashes on because chances are good they will go chase something. I know accidents happens, dogs slip out doors, dog parks are certianly hard, but I try to keep them out of any life threatening situations, while at the same time work on come in case it could one day save their life, but I hope to never use it!! =)
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Permalink Reply by Bev Levy on
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The recall is one of the most important commands to teach. It can save your dog's life! Start working on it while you have him leashed and you have a high value treat. (hot dog pieces or chicken) say" Kirby come" in a fun voice and bring him to you with the leash, give treat and repeat. Also work on it with a longer leash outside. It helps if you move away from him while bringing him towards you. It activates his prey drive. Never ever call him to you for a scolding or a punishment! Do this in a distracting environment as he gets better always leashed so you can immediately bring him to you. After many repetitions you will have a great recall and be really glad you spent the time now!
Again never call him for punishment! It destroys everything. Catch him if he is in trouble.
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Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on
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Our instructor for obedience did have her dog get loose in town on a busy street and she swears that the recall saved the dogs life. You can also have two people with treats calling and have the dog go back and forth! My Livvy isn't great with her recall/...she always comes but just not quiet close enough. A shock collar I believe would be punishing the dog, I would try some other ideas given here 1st. I have had to use a bark collar and now I just put it on (very rarely but there are those days) and doesn't bark! Like Bev said good yummy treats and you can also teach the word" touch
as this can get him closer. Good luck! I know how frustrating this can be!
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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Oh, Shawn and I used to do that treat game with Jack! We would go to a quiet area of a park that we didn't frequent much (if you are on familiar ground, the dog is more likely to not care about keeping an eye on you and get distracted) and we would take turns holding him and calling him.
If you have two dogs (well, I know you have more that that! LOL), take one that is very good on recall and one that is not. Put your dogs on a long stay, or leash them if they don't stay well (in our case, Madison doesn't know "stay" yet) and have your helper hold them. Walk to the other side of the field or room, then say BOTH dogs names and call them. The one who knows "come" will come running and chances are good it will bring the other one along with it, because they pick up on each other's excitement and then see the treats being dished out at the end.
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How old is Kirby?
Bev's instructions are good. As Kirby progresses, you can move up to a 30-foot training lead to get him to come from a distance.
If you need him, don't run towards him. Always run away from him as you call him.
WIth a young puppy, they will often come to you if you crouch down and clap. If he is off-leash during the training phase, NEVER call him unless you know he is already coming towards you, or you will reinforce ignoring the command. With Jack, when he was a puppy we would crouch down and clap, and after he started running towards us, we would say "come come come come come!!" in a high excited voice the whole time he was running for us, as it reinforced what he was doing and it guarantees a full-speed recall later on. However, this method only works with young puppies who are so curious that they will come running every time you crouch down. With an older dog, you need some other method. That's why "come" (and also "sit", for a different reason) are most easily taught to pups that are still only around 11 or 12 weeks old.
So, with an older dog, you find something that motivates him. Little bits of cheese, or a squeaky toy. Make sure he sees you have it, wave it around to encourage him to run towards you, and then AFTER he starts running towards you give the come command repeatedly, in a happy excited voice. Combine that with the leash work Bev described.
Once he starts to know it, you need to keep it a positive thing. So if he's out playing, keep some treats in your pocket and call him to you a few times and give him treats, then send him back to play. If you only use "come" to stop his game and leash him and take him home, then he will start ignoring you. When we are hiking or doing something else off-leash, I will also have my dogs come to me regularly just to get a treat. This way they don't associate "come" with "it's time to go home."
If you have already had him ignoring the command for some time, I suggest starting fresh with a different word like "here".
Another tip I have heard is if you are out in an open field and your dog is ignoring you, crouch down and examine the ground and act like you are picking up little bits of things. Your dog will be curious and come over.
As for shock collars, they can be useful tools in the hands of an experienced trainer. I don't think they are cruel, necessarily (they can be). However they can be disastrous in novice hands. Let's say your dog is out, and you say "Come!" and he starts to move away from you. Then you say "Kirby, Come!" again and he goes to move away from you further, and now you can't really see him so you give him a quick zap. But it turns out that just as you zapped, he had started to turn his head towards you with the idea of turning around and coming back. Well, now you've just punished him for coming towards you, which is what you want, but you didn't know it because your timing was off. Now you've conditioned your dog to run away. My father used to field-trial big-running pointers that were hunted behind on horseback. He said he saw more good dogs ruined with badly used electric collars than anything else. The dog would be out of sight and the handler would whistle it in and shock it for not coming, but it was on point, for example. I don't recommend them for us regular amateurs.
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The voice as talked about here a couple of times is very important...I thought I was fine with my voice until the instructors pointed out (I have a low voice) that I had to be more excited and make it sound more fun!!!
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Yeah, I have a video on my last blog and you can hear me off-camera, yelling "good boy!" and "Good girl!" like a bleedin' idiot! LOL I also clap a lot for my dogs. They seem to love clapping for some reason. You can just see them break out in big goofy grins.
That's why I prefer training at home to classes. LOL I am a bit more reserved when I have an audience.
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Permalink Reply by Maddy & Keke on
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Yes, we also did the 2 person calling out in different rms training for Keke. If I call her and she ignore me, I will walk the opposite direction. That always got her coming after me. If I want to scold her or do something she do not like, I go to her.
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Permalink Reply by Amber and Kirby on
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he is 4 moths old
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Oh, still just a baby! You are expecting a lot from him. In that case, crouching down and clapping, or running the other way, should both get his attention if he's loose. Just remember to not give your command until you see he's actually started towards you at a good speed, or you are reinforcing having him ignore you.
A four month old is much too young to use a shock collar. The bird dog trainers who use them well generally won't start what they call "serious" training (that is, training with distractions and punishment) til a dog is around a year old. Til that point, they keep everything fun and positive.
I'd also be very careful at a dog park, unless they have a specific puppy hour or something. A puppy can bring out the prey drive in some adult dogs, as they don't smell or move or act like a dog. The breeder where we got our dogs warned us that she has heard of puppies killed at dog parks. Please be very cautious about that!
If our dogs have gotten somewhere we don't want them and it's potentially dangerous (sneaked out the front door, poking around the basement) we will yell "Treat!" or "Cookie!" or whatever word they know for a dog biscuit. That usually gets them coming, and we're always sure to follow through with the promise.
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