The Limp Is Back
I started a discussion a while ago during the limping epidemic that seems to be going on about Finnigan limping ("Another one Bites the Dust"). His limp would come and go and for the last week at least he's been limp free. When I came home at lunch today to take him potty, he hobbled out of his crate and didn't want to walk. His limp is pretty bad and for no apparent reason. We don't have a yard so anytime he is outside we're with him and he hasn't done anything crazy. Besides that, he wasn't limping in the morning so what could have happened to him in his crate? Anyway, I am stumped and worried so tomorrow after work we're taking him to the vet. I was hoping to avoid this because not only is it expensive but how do you know that the diagnosis is correct? I hope it's nothing serious and I really hope he doesn't need surgery but most of all I want him to feel better. It's so sad seeing him limp around and despite his obvious pain, he still wants to play. He'll try to move at a jogging pace but ends up hopping to avoid putting weight on that back right leg. I'll let you all know what the vet says tomorrow. Wish him luck!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on
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When I got Livvy the deal was that I could give her back and she would replace Livvy with another dog but I would not get my $$$ back. Now I don't know anyone who could do that but I'm sure there are some! Livvy had a hernia that had closed that my vet found on her puppy check...but even then I couldn't return her and that was the next day!
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Permalink Reply by Joanna Kimball on
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The usual language on a health warranty is a replacement puppy, not money, for a crippling or fatal disorder. According to my own contract Finn would qualify but I'm not everybody. It's very uncommon for even the most stellar breeder to offer money; for one thing we are usually stretched thin ourselves and for another it starts to taint the process. I say that you should manage it conservatively, you want to do a TPO, etc. I need to be able to help you make decisions that are not motivated by my financial involvement. So I offer a replacement puppy.
I've been gone from the thread for a week because we are trying to move; as soon as things are less chaotic I'll give you a bunch of studies to look at. I would personally not do a tpo on a corgi but there may be options between "nothing" and "surgery".
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Permalink Reply by Alice on
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He did at one point offer to buy Finn back but as the rest of you agree, I could never do that. He's my little boy no matter what. I can understand that the breeder may not have the money either, it just makes sense to me that maybe half the cost of the puppy be refunded to assist with medical bills. I guess that would be in a perfect world. :)
Someone mentioned insurance and I have United Pet Care which is not insurance but more of a discount plan. It's only $9 a month and gets pretty good discounts at the vet's office. It saved us a lot on his chryptorchid neuter surgery. Unfortunately on specialists it only saves 10%. I have looked at actual insurance but it's expensive.
Joanna,
I hope your move went well. I would definitely like to hear your input if you get a chance to get caught up. I know you've done your research on HD.
I thought I had read that TPO is for puppies and would not be an option for Finn. I know FHO is an option but I don't know how difficult that is on the dog and what the end result is. As I mentioned earlier, I've yet to find out if THR is an option for Corgis but I know it is very invasive and expensive.
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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Alice, I don't know if he would work with you or not and of course if it turns out to be another injury, then he wouldn't be responsible.
You might try broaching it very politely in a way where he won't feel angry if he turns you down. Something like "I know you very generously offered to buy Finn back when I first discovered the problem, and honestly I turned that down because I was already so attached. I'm sure it's not the way things are normally done, but since I did not take you up on the buy-back, might you consider splitting the cost of the x-rays with me at the orthopedic vet's office? Since they are a specialist, their fees are quite high but I want to ensure the best care for Finnigan." Or something like that. That way it is phrased in such a way that you are asking him as if it would be a very generous favor if he takes you up. You might close with saying you would understand completely if he would not be able to do so or something.
I don't know how these things are handled. When Jack had coccidia, the co-breeder told me to send her the bill. I gently explained it was $4 and that would not be necessary; I called simply so they could check the other pups before anyone got sick. And then when we got Maddie her breeder promised me a bag of her regular food so I could transition and then left it on the counter at home. When she discovered she didn't have it, she offered to find a petstore nearby and go buy it while we waited, or have us buy it at home and send her the bill. Again I declined since we planned on feeding her anyway! I told her that was generous but unnecessary. But those are small costs, not major bills.
It's up to you to decide and I know it's awkward to ask, but it could be worth a shot.
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Beth has a good point on her last reply. A simply request and the way you approach it might work even if he has to "think about it" for awhile. I would think he would want to be fair and I suppose it depends on his finances but if it were me I would want to contribute something!
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I'll feel him out and see before I directly mention money. He's yet to respond to my email from a couple days ago but I know one of his girls just had a litter of 9 and he has another pregnant female so I'm sure he's pretty busy.
If he was willing to buy back Finn for full price then you'd think giving us half and letting us keep Finn would be even better for him. This way he doesn't have to hand out as much money and he won't end up with a dog with bad hips he doesn't know what to do with.
The good news is that Finn has not been limping for about 4 days now. When he runs with both back legs together, you can tell that there's a bit of a hop on that right side but it certainly doesn't discourage him from running. He may have slight stiffness when he get out of his crate in the morning but no limp. We still haven't taken him to the park to run around but he has been racing around the apartment making sharp turns and abrupt stops which I was sure would bring back the limp but it has not. I've started letting him walk up the stairs a couple times a day and that has not effected him either (I still carry him for the other trips up the stairs just to avoid overdoing it). I'm nervous to take him to the park though. Maybe we can wait a few more days then go for a short time.
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Sounds like a plan with the breeder. I'd wait a few days to take him to the park too and then try to limit his play some though! Good luck!
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Permalink Reply by Stephanie on
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As others have mentioned, this seems to be on the rise. I have my own completely unsupported theory and would like to do an informal poll....
How many of the people who have dogs with this issue have hardwood floors? I ask because whenever Bear is on my linoleum, or when we go to my sister's house where there are hardwood floors his back feet constantly slide around when he sits down or just stands in place. I always think to myself that all that cannot be good for his body.
And with the rise of removing carpet and putting in hardwood or synthetic type hardwood floors - it makes me curious.
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I have noticed this especially when my dogs are running in my hallway(linoleum) as they slip/slide more also. What about a rough tile?I don't think this would be very slippery and I was really thinking of going with a tile in my living room so that I don't have carpet.
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It is not good for a young, growing puppy to spend much time on slippery surfaces and this can contribute to hip problems. In our case, we have carpet. We have fake wood in the bathrooms and kitchen only. I suspected he had hip issues from a very young age which was confirmed by x-ray at 8 months and is now causing him pain. This wasn't caused by flooring, it is something he was born with.
I've mentioned before that Finn's litter died due to an undetermined illness (two theories were canine herpes and parvo) and he was the only survivor. I often wonder if this effected his growth and health. I don't know if this is possible or not. We don't even know if he ever had the illness or if he went untouched. If he did have it and developed immunity, could this have caused problems for him? Just a thought
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My 1st thought and this is only a thought is I could see certain things that he could have due to one of these illnesses but I don't think/see how it would pertain to a joint problem. I could see certain illnesses though!????
I wonder if a grandparent could have had very poor hips!
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How old were the puppies when they died? There shouldn't be any confusion between herpes and parvo; herpes kills puppies under 3 weeks old (they "fade") and parvo kills them around 6-8 weeks with bloody diarrhea.
Hip dysplasia is a developmental disorder with SOME genetic influence. It's not wholly or even mostly genetic. People always try to find the dysplastic uncle or something but the fact is that around 30-40% of Cardigans are dysplastic and it's actually unusual to have a whole litter pass their hips. So OF COURSE he had a dysplastic uncle (and, since I know his lines, I actually do know that he had a dysplastic uncle) and aunts and cousins too.
The thing that's troubling to me about Finn is that he's symptomatic so early and that he was showing issues by the time he was a few weeks old. Most of the time Cardigans rarely if ever show symptoms. If a breeder decides that the hips are too loose to breed and places the dog in a pet home, that pet home will probably never see anything but a happy normal dog. That makes Finn an unusual case and it is what makes me suspect that there's something going on in addition to the dysplasia - ligament or knee or weak muscles or something "extra" that, when combined with his bad hips, is causing him significant discomfort.
There's nothing about either herpes or parvo that would hurt musculature. What COULD do it is if he was overfed or underexercised as a tiny baby (something I certainly have no idea about; I don't know his breeder that well), if he has a knee injury, or if he's always favored his hips and has not developed the healthy corgi muscle mass in his rear. The more you can give him regular exercise that asks him to trot (the best for building rear muscles) and asks him to go up and down hills, the less he'll feel it when he has a fun day of exercise. If you can get him hiking every day, for example, even for a mile or two, so he has to trot and hop over little roots and so on, and can sprint ahead and then walk for a while and then run and then trot and so on, that would be ideal.
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