Corgi Aggression to Larger Dogs! HELP!
My corgi "Picasso" has started to develop aggression towards large dogs. If they get near his ears or face or try to stand over him, he goes psycho on them and tries to bite them. Now its not all large dogs but a lot of them. His face first looks as if he is scared and then "tries to get them before they get him." I have stopped him, but sometimes its hard to step in because he is so fast and just runs away. I have started to use a muzzle if i know we will be around large dogs. It has sort of helped but there is still a few large dogs that just rub him the wrong way. HELP!!!! Does anyone have this issue? Does anyone have suggestions??
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Joanna Kimball on
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Does it sound like this? http://www.nesr.info/images-english-shepherd/He-just-wants-to-say-h...
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Permalink Reply by Rachael & Waffle on
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I saved this to my comp so I can show other people should it come up, thanks!
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I can't take credit; it's a classic. I think that very few dogs actually like close physical contact with strange dogs, and the notable exceptions are the breeds that are very frequently owned (Labs and Goldens). If all you've had experience with is a big sporting dog who thinks jumping on other dogs is normal behavior, you think that that's "friendly." It's absolutely NOT; it's rude and inconsiderate. The jumped-on or jumped-near dogs have every right to correct it, but they unfortunately get labeled as aggressive or whatever. I'd personally like to wipe the word "aggression" out of the vocabulary of every dog owner; it's so rarely correct and it makes perfectly normal dogs sound crazy.
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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Part of the issue is we humans expect dogs with very different personalities to co-mingle in a friendly way. Having lived with a lab, I can confirm they are big and kinda clutzy and looovve body contact, but they are also very tolerant of the same behavior directed at them. They have high pain thresholds and are a-ok with being trompled on (most of them). So they play that way with each other and are fine, but when they mingle with other dogs there can be a problem. So amongst their own, it is not rude.
Kinda like if someone from Italy moved to England and went around kissing all the men on the cheeks. :-)
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Permalink Reply by Sky and Lyla on
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I just read this article off your Mystery Litter blog... LOVED IT! I sent it on to Brando's breeder and my obedience and handling instructors. Thanks!
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Permalink Reply by Meredith and Paisley on
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Thank you so much for posting this article Joanna! It was kind of like an epiphany for me about Paisley's behavior towards other dogs! Now I feel that I have a much better understanding of how Paisley feels and how to react to that behavior. Thank you again!
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Permalink Reply by shelley power on
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Joanna,
Tis very interesting, and whether it is single dog to single dog or several in a pack, it is still "pack" behavior. In domestic canines, there is still a dominance "trait" built in and so there will always be dogs who try to exert their donimance , male or female. However a properly schooled HANDLER will ALWAYS be the ONLY pack leader and dominant figure, albeit human. In the wild, maybe "rude" dogs need to be taught a lesson by another dog, but it will always be the dominant dog who does the correcting and all others must "submit or a challenge ensues and can become ugly. In our house we listen and observe for stance, body language and other pack rude behavior, and intervene as in a wild pack when there are challenges to our ultimate dominance. The dogs know there is only one alpha ( US) Now understand, taking on a leadership(dominant) roll is not all about punishing the dog, often is is about stepping in and correcting/preventing another dogs rude behavior, so ultimately just as in a dogpack, the dog learns to depend on the pack leader for protection, and allows them to be secure and confident,as well as correction. It seems to me it works both ways with dominance and submission. An overly submissive dog can easily become fearful and develop fear bite response, and an overly dominant dog often becomes the aggressor because he lacks a confident handler who is willing to be the only alpha in the group.I have a relatively new female (also young) in my group at home who we are teaching to depend on us , and we are teaching her what is and is not appropriate behavior. She can be a bit snarky at times usually over a ball or toy, often chasing and threatening anyone else in the group who gets close to the target which has been thrown to all. When she "loses" and doesnt get to the ball first and snaps at the one who did fetch it , we step in. she is put in a down position and held at stay for the next few throws. In the same way if she gets the ball and another agressively approaches her and snaps , we step in and with a firm touch send the offendor a strong message BACK OFF. In this way she is learning that her "protective threatening behavior is not necessary. she can play and not have to deal with "space" toy invasion issues. Yes she neednt be overly submissive and fearful either.
We try to work with our dogs and reassure and reward as much as correct. Little by little , we see she is learning the appropriate responses to different situations. But there are always a few in the off leash park to are let run amok hither and thither and yon, with no correction, and often the owners either havent a clue or could care less, so we are not afraid to use the same corrective technique and assert "our dominance" if a dog approaches us rudely.. ANd tho we have an intact male, we do not allow any kind of "mounting behavior" . There are dogs who will tolerate it, but it is rude and we correct the behavior always , never excuse it.
We have a wild wolf center near us and it is extremely interesting to watch their interactions over time. They run the whole gambit from social interactions, to food, to pups and play..very educational..
In our domestic situation however we do not let challenges escalate to a challenge to the death.....
Ours all have different personalities, and occassionally get on each others last nerve, but they have learned from human handlers the coping skills and and proper responses to deal with most situations. When they fail, I find it is usually my lack of observation . we are none of us perfect.
Also interesting reading other observations re: leashes in agressive dog interactions. makes perfect sense to me that the tension would only escalate .. we are always amazed at the number of people who bring dogs to the off leash run and keep the dog leashed. gee there must either be a threat or something to fear is the message I would get if I were a dog!
Anyway great article I am gonna try to print and post at our dogpark !
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Hi Kasha. Does Picasso do this mainly on-leash, off-leash, or both? In other words, given the option to retreat from a dog that is crowding him, does he take that option or does he go out of his way to approach a dog and then lunge at it? Does he only do it if dogs come up to him despite his own "please don't approach me" posture, or does he initiate the contact and then over-react to polite gestures by other dogs?
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good questions Beth, cos its so hard to really figure out the problem just by the reaction. Hard to know without careful observation of what the entire scenario is.
Space infringement could be any number of things besides aggression. Confident dogs need to learn to expect to be "checked out" when they are new to a group, and how to greet the group he is entering. There are probably a hundred other possible scenarios behind whats going on. And then these can change each time the group of dogs changes, the group dynamic can change. So lots of observation in different situations.
In our dogpark, soon as a new dog arrives they all run to the gate, and we all run to make them politely wait till the new dog gets in! then there is a ritual of information gathering(i.e sniffing) this ritual can be daunting for a new or inexperienced dog, but encouraged to be patient, they learn and they get a turn to sniff too.. .. It has been fun to watch the dogs as they progress through this ritual, and now we see dogs that were a shaking nervous wreck come and can't wait to "exchange " info... we laugh... who ya been with , whats the gossip....as they check each other out. But imagine if 20 people ran up to you the minute you came in the door, I dare say you might be a bit overwhelmed.. I say monitor and give her time and reassure her ( depending on the answers to the questions beth poses) and she will be fine. I realize everyone has their own ways but my oppinion, is still I am my dogs protector so if approached in a rude or threatening manner I intercede, if the other owner doesn't.
The other bit I watch for if greeting time is past is any dog that tries to stand over another dog... again depending on the scenario, is usually an attempt to dominate... which in my opinion your dog has the right to object to, and expect you to step in .
The dynamics are funny, some otherwise balanced dogs will immediately try to dominate a new dog that shows signs of being insecure.... at our park.
also I cant help but wonder if just like some people have a tendency to over react , some dogs might just also tend to over react in a new situation??
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Whenever possible I prefer to let my dogs work it out. I actually go out of my way to get my new puppy around dogs I know will "teach him a lesson" (that sounds kind of mean when I write it down, lol). He needs to learn it's not okay to body slam other dogs, or jump on their backs, etc, and I am A-OK with older dogs snarking at him for acting that way. Hey, if they teach him then I don't have to!
The problem is when my dogs feel invaded by a stranger dog, and probably someone who doesn't understand dogs well enough, and then my dog gets told they are mean or aggressive or I'm a bad owner. This is why when I'm at the dog park, on the rare occasion we go, I stay by my dogs, and if there is a rude dog, we try to relocate or we go home. I'm sure people think I'm the bad dog owner because I have the "mean, snappy" dog, but in reality, they are the ones with the awful dogs. In fact, the more often I go, the less I think I like dog parks, lol. They are a good way to socialize though if you can go during the less busy times and keep a close eye (and have thick skin for when people don't understand dog behavior).
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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This was the advice our puppy-class instructor gave to us. She said 9/10 the dogs will work it out themselves, and people usually just get in the way. She also said it usually sounds much worse than it is.
As the owner of a "rude" puppy, I'm usually grateful when another dog puts Casey in her place, although oftentimes the other owner will apologize for their dog, pull them away or (has happened occasionally) the dog gets held down to the ground. I always tell people that it's OK, they're just telling her to back off and it's a valuable lesson for her to learn.
Although she doesn’t seem to get that not everyone wants to be her best friend and that sometimes it's best to just back off. But these types of scenarios are very difficult in places like a dog park where you don't know the dogs there. Who is tolerant? Who isn't? We'll usually leave a group of dogs if they aren't interested in what Casey has to offer. She get's along swimmingly with other puppies who want to run/play, but adult dogs in general (who seem mostly to just want to wander around and sniff stuff) usually aren't as interested in Casey as she is in them.
The discussion of labs in the article is particularly salient with me - just last week this woman with three labs was at the dog park and oh my goodness were they obnoxious. Even Casey couldn't handle them, and she's incredibly obnoxious herself!
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