Attacking the sliding doors!
I have posted before about Tilly chasing cars, and some of you didn't like the way I was training her to stop doing it. You will like that I now use a tuna fish can filled with pebbles, covered with duct tape and take that to shake whenever we are out. She hates the can shaking,so she doesn't chase. She is getting a lot better. I also use this can when I don't want her to bark. But the next problem that I have with Tilly, now just short of 8 months old, is that when I open the downstairs sliding doors, she attacks them, barking up a frenzy and biting the door. Sometimes she just wants out so that she can attack the door. She gets frantic about it. Not sure why she doesn't attack the door from the inside, just on the outside. If I or Abby my Golden Retriever step through the door when she is already out, she'll be so agitated/excited from the moving sliding door that she will try to bite us! She doesn't break the skin, but has come very close and it hurts a lot. Abby is afraid to go out the door when Tilly is outside already. I've tried opening the door ever so slowly and it is better, but this is not real life. I have tried brushing chili pepper sauce on the door where she often bites it. I don't think she liked that, but still continued to attack the door. I have also shaken the can at her, but it makes no difference. Has anyone else had this problem, and please, please tell me what you did to solve the problem.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on
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Is there a way that you can make her sit/stay and you and the other dog go out before her? Honestly...I might try a soft cloth muzzle if she has to go out before you and is trying to bite....this at least she can't bite? Take her far away from the door before it comes off or even leave it on until she stops this behavior? Sorry I don't have any great ideas but these are some I would try myself.
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Permalink Reply by Karen Knuff on
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She used to have this problem upstairs when opening the french doors to go outside. I did make her sit and stay, which was almost impossible, then I attached her to a leash from the dining room chair. I would also very slowly open the door. She would bite the door, frantically bark at it, and would be so agitated that she would also try to bite us. I think because the sliding door is a different kind of moving door, that she doesn't know what to do with it. At that time I thought it was because she could see her reflection, so I covered the doors upstairs and downstairs with wax paper. This seemed to help. But I think this was only the beginning of her problems. But she doesn't try to bite us upstairs anymore, and she doesn't try to be dominant over Abby either anymore. In desperation, I finally I pinned her down and said, "NO". I was amazed at the change in her behaviour. Abby is finally able to go peacefully out the back door. (I have pinned Tilly down for the sliding doors, but it made no difference) BUT, she still wants out all the time, with the purpose of getting the door in order perhaps? or making sure to protect us from the evil door??? Am considering a bark collar, because she goes out, but doesn't have to go "out", and whips around barking crazily at the door. This is REALLY annoying, but when I open the door to get her back inside, the brat rushes away from me and refuses to come!! I wish that I could understand. It's so FRUSTRATING!!!
I have been racking my brains as to what I could do next. The muzzle thing might help so I'll store that idea. I think unless I get other ideas, I'm going to put a leash on her both upstairs and downstairs, so that at least I might have a chance of actually catching her. Was also thinking and will do today, of blocking off most of the sliding door so that she cannot see it move back and forth. I pray that she grows out of this!!!! Surely other people have had this problem and have solved it!!!
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I forgot about using a barking collar...they actually do work well...I always hated the idea but my daughter and I asked her hubby/son-in-law to try it (people tested) before trying it on the dog. It gives a warning buz before it shocks and she learned that fast so she could bark a couple barks and then would quit before it shocked her. She then learned to do this so she didn't get shocked but did bark much less. Hope this makes sense...Livvy did much better.
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Permalink Reply by Anna Morelli on
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You truly have an unusual problem! It is hard to find a cure without understanding the cause. This is what I would try, to begin with.
I would definitely keep her on leash and do training sessions, as many in a day as you can get in, without the other dog there to interfere while you train. If possible, take her to do her business elsewhere through another door and keep the sliding door for training only. You will need a crate, preferably in view of the door.
On leash have her sit 4 feet or so from the door. Say "door" and start to open it in a usual, matter of fact way. If she starts to get up, remind her to sit, repeat the word door and open it. If she acts up, without scolding her, take her to the crate and put her in there ( in your head think: "Oh, she wants to go to her crate, not outside. No problem!") Wait 10 minutes or so, open the crate and put her on leash, walk to the door and repeat as above. If she remains calm until the door is mostly open, give her a really yummy treat, but keep it very calm, so as not to excite her and take her outside on leash. Any attempt to attack the door and she goes in the crate for 10 minutes. Keep it structured, both going in and going out. She has to make the connection about what is getting her which results and that may take more or less time depending on how smart she is and how consistent you are. You can let the other dog in or out when she is in the crate, to begin with and until she is no longer shewing these exttreme symptoms.
If you manage to get this under control, you will still need to address the dog's strong drive/need to chase and bite something. This needs to be safely redirected to some kind of toy and can then be used as a reward.
If you see no real progress within seven or eight tries, then add a soft muzzle and keep that on in the house as well, so she does not connect it with going out. You can remove the muzzle when you have the wanted behavior and then restart to train in steps without it on. Good luck She will make a good trainer out of you! I learned a lot because I have had the privilege of interacting with many "difficult dogs"..... I hope this helps and am glad you have made progress with the issues you wrote about before and with your shake can approach.
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Permalink Reply by Carol on
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I'm wondering if she sees a reflection of some sort in the door-something she sees from outside but not inside. I'm thinking of how birds will fly into a window, either from seeing a reflection or a houseplant inside. Very far fetched but maybe if you have a gnome in your yard??? Or a squirrel statue. Or maybe a real squirrel comes to the door and teases her? They can be relentless if they know the dog can't get them.
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Permalink Reply by susan on
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So for some reason she thinks the door is threatening? Evil door! Maybe if you convinced her it wasn't threatening. I like Anna's approach. Here is another as food for thought. First, never open the door unless you have her on leash, no matter what method you try. Be armed with a pocket full of high value treats. With the pup on leash, open the door, and simultaneously give her a simple command such as Sit. If she sits, even for a second, click and treat. Your timing would have to be really good. My thought is that if she thought that when the door opened and she was sitting good things would happen. You would have to be super consistent about it. The approach may need some refinement, but it would be designed around getting her to think differently about the door opening, using positive reinforcement for the right behavior, rather than negative reinforcement for the wrong behavior. Good luck. Let us know if there is progress!
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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I like Anna's approach to training but will also add this: it sounds like you have a very high-drive dog without an appropriate outlet for her herding/chasing/prey drive. If you can find something near you, I would suggest trying to get her involved in a dog sport. You will need to go through a higher level of obedience training first. In the meantime, give her outlet with something like Frisbee or chuckit.
Also, you can work to build her frustration tolerance, since it sounds like she has very little. You can start with her food dish. Put her on a sit. Tell her "wait" as you hold out your hand in traffic-cop fashion. Start to put the food on the ground. If she moves, raise the food dish back in the air. Lather, rinse, repeat. When you put the food bowl down, say "ok" to release her and let her go eat. In the beginning, only make her wait less than a second before releasing her. Over time, work up to 4 or 5 seconds. You can "body block" her by using your body to get between her and the food if she tries to rush it. Use this exercise regularly to teach her self-control.
When you are playing with toys, ask for a sit before you throw the toy. Ask for a down before you give a treat. Once you teach "wait" ask her to wait before going out the front door on a leash. And so on. Basically you are conditioning her to understand that good things come to patient dogs, and nothing fun happens to dogs who get over threshold. This is an ongoing lifestyle change.
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Permalink Reply by Holly on
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I am a huge fan of building frustration tolerance in people and dogs. It makes for a much happier life. I think the tips from Anna and Beth sound great. Hard to say since I don't live with Tilly, but it does sound like a high prey drive issue combined with a less than adequate level of respect for her humans. If that is the case the training tips Anna suggested, coupled with the cues to sit/stay and wait, practiced at every feeding should help build some frustration tolerance. I have trouble with Sully going through doors because she has an unwarranted fear of a door closing on her. She is trained to wait and never go through a door ahead of a human, but it is more than that. Drives me crazy, but it does no include barking or biting.Tilly seems to be motivated by another cause. I'm sure she will improve when she understands that the humans are in charge and she needs to cooperate to get her needs, such as eating, going out and coming in, met.
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I agree with Beth, Anna and Holly. I never thought of her maybe seeing the reflection in the door.
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I was discussing with my friend, and she suggested that I try putting a muzzle on her. She happened to have two exactly the right sized ones, so I took them home with me. Last night I put it on Tilly and opened the sliding door. She tried to attack, but it wasn't working. She stared at the door for a moment and then wanted in and never wanted out again that evening. This was truly a miracle, because she will want out about 5 times, just to turn around and bark and attack the door, and then refuse to come inside. What a relief. I also have one for upstairs, and I put that on Tilly today. She can still bark a little bit, but she just does a lot of complaining, kinda funny. My neighbour, and the same friend, says that the outside airwaves are a lot quieter! She and her husband used to say, "Tilly's out!" Now they can't say that. So, this seemed to be the easiest thing to try.
I have also been working on making her sit and stay in places where she is not patient at all. She knows how to wait. I make her wait when I am swiffering the floor. This takes patience on my part, because I have to put her back at least 4 times. But, she isn't barking and at least she's trying to wait. She also used to bark like crazy and attack the swiffer, but I shook my can at her and now she doesn't bark. Baby steps! I have never, ever had such a difficult dog to train. Very challenging. Now I know why the last two have been Golden Retrievers! So easy going, non dominant, easy to please. But Tilly is so worth it. I just love her and I could see myself (after I forget how hard it was to train her) getting another one. Just love Corgi's!
Thank you for all of your advice. Muchly appreciated.
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Great news:)
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Permalink Reply by Vicky Hay on
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That's an interesting idea. Ruby the Corgi Pup barks sometimes if she sees her reflection in our sliding door. Also sometimes she notices herself and me in a mirror and may bark or whine about that. But she's never tried to attack. Hm.
The "let me out so I can attack the door" behavior sounds like a game. Ruby learned that she could get a treat for coming in the back door when called, so she began to dart out the doggy door (in another room) and race around to the back door as a scam to extract another treat. These dogs are alarmingly smart!
Agility training might be helpful. Most cities have groups of enthusiasts who will welcome a corgi. It requires some doggy intellectual engagement and also runs off a little ginger. Also in some areas people with farms or horse property and a few goats will offer herding lessons. Apparently the corgi takes to this as the proverbial duck to the proverbial water. Plus it sounds like a lot of human fun, too!
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