fantasy dog: corgi/border collie mix; "border corgi"?
I saw a beautiful dog today, close to my "fantasy dog" in physique, color, temperament. It was a tricolored shelty/border collie mix. Coat pattern was almost exactly like our Al, size a bit smaller than your typical border collie, fur intermediate (not wavy or scraggly the way some collies get, but a bit longer than our Pems), very plush but not tangled; snout more like a Shelty, finer and narrower than a Pem. A gorgeous animal, very friendly and well-behaved.
It was very much like Al or Gwynnie, but sort of "stretched" in every dimension.
There is this voice that keeps whispering in my ear -- I can't tell if it's evil or inspired, devil or angel -- suggesting that Al & Gwynnie would be really cool with slightly bigger bodies, slightly longer legs, and tails. that's basically what this dog was. Usually, my virtue reasserts itself, just in time: for a city dweller and sometime backpacker/hiker/mountain climber, the small size of the Pembroke has many of the same advantages as it does for the poor Welsh farmer (you don't have to carry/pay for as much food). Shorter dogs are less intimidating to small children. Short legs may be a advantage on very steep terrain (the Pembroke Welsh Marmot).
But the idea is there.
Does anybody know a Permbroke/border collie mix ("Border Corgi")?
I'm thinking, "Pembroke personality, slightly larger physique".
Am I thinking, "Cardigan"?
I know there's at least one Border Cardi on this site. Any Border Pems?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Joanna Kimball on
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Cardigans don't have the Pem personality, unless you get a bad one :). Cardis are more like German Shepherds - easy-going, more focused (less ADHD), more stubborn, more "thinky," and they take longer to court and woo than a Pem does.
Cardis do fit your bill in terms of being bigger and longer and being allowed to keep their tails. They are not taller on leg, though; I think they have proportionately slightly shorter legs if anything because the body is longer.
Vallhunds are like Pems on speed, so if you like the Pem personality turned up to 11 and a longer leg and rounder body, look at them.
If I can be a little bit of a Debbie Downer, I don't like the idea of "fixing" a breed by making it resemble another breed. Would a Pem be able to run faster or herd a bit better on a typical US/UK farm with longer legs? Would it be able to get itself out of certain situations better with a shorter body? Yes, absolutely, which is why the Border Collie exists. If you need a dog who can herd fast and has a super flexible light body, don't get a Pem in the first place, and certainly don't breed a Pem to something taller. Go get a dog who is SUPPOSED to be light and tall, instead of wrecking a breed who is supposed to be short and sturdy.
Here in New England we have some really craptastic terrain, similar to the little Welsh pastures and beaches that corgis were bred on. I can take a show-bred "exaggerated" or "extreme" Cardi in the tide pools or up the side of a hill without thinking twice; my sister's Catahoula will get half-way across the rock beach and either give up or start crying because his legs hurt. On flat ground or woods, the Catahoula leaves mine far behind. It's "horses for courses," and advantages appear or disappear depending on the environment the dog is supposed to excel in. We have to breed (both breeds) as though we are living a thousand years ago in Wales on a dollar a year, not as though we are living in the US now with cheap kibble at the supermarket.
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Permalink Reply by Cooper, Nora, Grady, Izzy & Jax on
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thank you Joanna for using the term "craptastic" I thought I was the only person who ever used that word~ Doesn't it just fit the best of any situation?
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Permalink Reply by Avyon on
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I'm sorry I have to throw this out but I love how you said this -
"Vallhunds are like Pems on speed, so if you like the Pem personality turned up to 11 and a longer leg and rounder body, look at them."
That just gave me a chuckle :)
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Permalink Reply by David on
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I think Joanna is right. Vallhund fits your description of "Pembroke personality, slightly larger physique". The Vallhunds I have met when lived in Colorado are definitely more energetic, but less bossy than PWC. They are just as much fun as PWC. They will certainly be a good hiking companion for you. However, PWC have much more fashionable fur colors!
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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John, like you, I prefer a slightly more "natural" look to a dog (even though I have come to see my Pems as the most gorgeous dogs in the whole wide world). To me, a small Aussie (with a natural bob-tail or undocked normal tail) is the perfect-looking dog based on size, leg-length, coat and ear type, etc.
BUT, the main reason we chose a Pem as our best-fit breed was that because of their short legs, they don't need lots of running to tire them out. They are content with several walks a day and the occasional handful of sprints chasing a ball or frisbee, and because of their size they can run in the house without wrecking the joint, so we can play tennis ball games in the tiled hallway.
I love the herding dogs, love their looks and intelligence and can-do personality, but a herding dog with a longer leg just needs way too much running to meet my lifestyle.
We used the book "Your Purebred Puppy" to choose the "best" breed for us, and while an Aussie came out something like 9 out of 10, that one point they lost was a real killer: the ability to offer hours of hard exercise a week. We just can't do that. So while a part of my brain, like yours, wants to see a taller dog, I realize that a dog like that would be a dog that was not happy in my house. What we have now, a dog who will relish a long hike but not eat the drywall if it doesn't have acreage, is perfect.
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Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on
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@ Beth...yes you have the Aussie miles down correct! My Aussie(Armani) is a great dog but to get his exercise in he chases flying birds in trees! This is fine as he stays in our almost 5 acres but the barking and running for hours can sometimes get on my nerves...but hey...he's not bothering anyone and plus getting his exercise all by himself!
@ Vallhunds! I did check out some breeders awhile ago and many of them did start with Pems and then once they got a Vallhund...that was it for whatever reason(don't remember) but they loved them enough to switch over!
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Permalink Reply by John Wolff on
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I often say, "I sometimes wish my dogs had longer legs -- then catch myself just in time". The grim truth is that I live in a city. I feel so guilty about keeping farm dogs in a small house with a small yard. They don't get to chase livestock all day. They get to chase a ball, poaching off-leash time on the playfield, and a couple of leash walks a day. Maybe not enough, but it's what they get. The advantages of the Pem physique keep reasserting themselves.
And I cannot outwalk these dogs, except on terrain that borders on rockclimbing (and then I can carry one).
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@ John...if we could do a poll, most of our corgis would love to live at your home...it's not always the "space" but the fun and adventures!
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I concur with Jane; I think most dogs would be thrilled to end up in your house! But I share your guilt, and sometimes look at them (especially Jack) and think "Wow, you'd be so happy on a farm!"
Luckily we live by a big park and get to take them on off-leash trails, or splashing in the stream, a few times a week.
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@John and Beth...don't forget that "it's all about the people too" any dog would be very happy with both of you! It's the dogs that spend too much time crated, penned/tied outside or not interacted with that I feel sorry for! NOT with owners like you who do the best they can with what they have to be the best owners!
Jane
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Just tell them that the aliens who picked you up in the black helicopter made you take Gizmo because they didn't want him anymore.
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Permalink Reply by Bev Levy on
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I understand your thought process John but I have to admit my favorite thing about my corgis is people smile when they see them. I think border collies are beautiful but when we encounter people in our travels they usually smile at the sight of our special dogs. The longer legs would have it's own set of problems. People are always very impressed when I show up with the doberman but from afar! I love the warm friendly welcome with the corgis the best!
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