One Good Citizen, and One Not-So-Good Citizen
Bertie Wooster is officially a Canine Good Citizen (and we have the patch and certificate to prove it). The testing person was very complimentary about what a good boy he is, and our agility teacher (who was observing and helping out) chimed in by telling her he's a super agility dog (she's never said that to us before!). So it was a red letter evening.
But when we got home, little Ethel (who is 2) suddenly attacked Bertie apparently out of the blue, with lots of growling and flash. They were sort of tussling on the floor a little while I was walking around, and I'm not sure exactly how it happened. He yelped, and I could not tell if she was actually biting him (but he had no scratches or marks, so I think he yelped out of fear). I pulled them apart and she calmed right down, although growled a little when he came to close. He, now, is giving her a very wide berth, and was very upset, needing a lot of hugs and pets to calm down. I know I am anthropomorphising, but Ethel seemed contrite as if she'd made a mistake (that's just so you can understand how she is behaving).
Bertie is very easy going, whereas Ethel has always been somewhat fearful (of loud noises and dogs who are too much in her face), and she has growled and snapped (as a typical sort of warning, not attacking) if a dog bounces up to her with tons of energy and tries to get her to play. She's fine with dogs that are calm -- and she's also fine once the bouncy dogs back off a tad, and she gets to do a little sniffing of them quietly. She also doesn't like other dogs sniffing her for too long. She'll allow a little butt inspection, but if it goes on too long, she sits down, the ears start to fall, and the lip starts to curl. I take the dogs with me all the time (we live in rural CT), so they have met and played with all kinds of dogs and people, and are really comfortable in a lot of situations. Ethel has NEVER shown an iota of aggression toward any people, ever.
Anyhow, all is quiet this morning, although they are both avoiding each other. They ate their meals in the kitchen as usual, no problems, but Ethel has repaired to her crate and Bertie is lying with me in my office.
I just don't know what made her go off the deep end, and what exactly to do to make them comfortable around each other again. What do you think?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Sam Tsang on
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If there were no previous altercation, may be it was a challenge in pack order? are they at all possessive of you?
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Permalink Reply by Susan Stanton on
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Ethel is, more so than Bertie, so that's one thing. I don't know how not to set her off, if that's it, though.
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Permalink Reply by Roger/Laurie on
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Maybe when you got home Bertie didn't smell they same. (Been around other dogs or people ) and Ethel was caught of guard and was afraid. I know when we have Chepstow out on a walk and he has been around other dogs, Tenby is a little put off when we come home.
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Now that you mention that -- the first CGC class, I left Ethel at home in her crate, and when we got home she came out all excited, and then smelled liver cookies on Bertie's breath and started chewing on him a bit (not growling, but as if he WAS a cookie) -- that's a good thought, too.
Oh, to be able to crawl inside the dog's head....
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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Do you know what Bertie was doing exactly when Ethel pounced? And was there anything else going on around you at the time?
Do you know what Ethel was doing in the time preceding the attack? Was she in, or out; could something have already happened that had her on edge?
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Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on
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Is Ethel spayed? If not it could have been hormonal. My Livvy was somewhat like Ethel but that was when she was pregnant now she is better. Is there any reason she would have been very tired? Mine get "testy" when they are tired. She very well could have felt bad for doing this. Since this only happened one time I would just be observant. Let them work it out as long as they aren't fighting!
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Thanks for all your nice comments. I was starting to reply one by one, but work interfered (darn those losing lotto tickets!).
The issue is slightly broader than I typed above. Ethel has been becoming slightly snappier over the past few months (she was two in November and yes, she is spayed and Bertie is neutered). What I've noticed is that she wants to play, and gets going, and then after a few minutes she crosses a line and gets aggressive. That's happened 2 or 3 times, and most recently with a terrier she knows well -- and the terrier kept bouncing around, nipping at Ethel, and when Ethel had had enough, she went at him. The terrier actually bit her, drawing blood and leaving a puncture wound (with Ethel, it's mostly flash and noise, I haven't known her to actually sink her teeth into anything). On the other hand, she has a good friend Congo (who's a Ridgeback) and Zoe (who's a sheepdog) and she's submissive to them.
So back to our house -- I have heard her growl at Bertie on a few occasions, and I can't see a link. He's just walking by -- but she's not protecting anything or keeping him away from me, or anything that I can tell. They have worked out their issues quite well -- I can feed them right next to each other, and Ethel, who finishes first, waits around to lick Bertie's bowl when he's done. They wrestle and play, and if Bertie grabs a toy, Ethel lies right next to him and grabs it once he's bored and drops it. Then she runs off and he barks at me to go get it (okay, we're a dysfunctional family....).
Last night, I really don't know what was up. We were in my TV room, they were on the floor and blocked from my sight by a coffee table, I was walking around trying to sort of straighten up. I could hear them bustling around under there, sounded like a wrestle, and then I heard Ethel just tearing into Bertie, and Bertie yelping in fear or surprise. The upsetting thing to me is that he would not go near her for the rest of the evening and most of this morning. Now they seem to have settled back into a truce, but I can see Bertie is wary still. He's a gentle guy, and just doesn't get aggression -- he's not submissive either, he's just an agreeable, middle of the road kind of guy.
I guess I'm just unsure what to do about the change in her attitude (if anything). I actually have poked around and wrestled her myself to see if there was something that hurts and makes her snap, but that didn't provoke anything. She just had her annual check up, and was 100% a-ok.
Maybe I'm just too used to Bertie's laid back, love of life attitude, so a dog with 'tude comes as a surprise.
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She is at the age where her adult personality is settling in, so certainly her age might be part of it. I think maybe if it were me I'd have some bloodwork pulled and check her thyroid and also give her a full exam to check for any sore spots. When behavior changes for the worse, sometimes there is a physical cause and if it were me, I would want to completely rule out that possibility before I pursued possible behavioral issues.
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Whoops, I see that you say you checked her for any sore spots!
If Bertie is avoiding her, it sounds like he maybe doesn't get what triggered it either. My experience is if they get snarked at for being rude, they seem to understand why and it doesn't bother them. So maybe it was out of the blue from Bertie's perspective, too.
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Permalink Reply by Bev Levy on
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My experience is that she is at the age to try to be "top dog" . I went through this with my previous girl and Izzy has done it too a little but not as much. I do not allow "snarky" behavior. Izzy responds to a firm no but I have leashed Sparty for a few days to stop it. I also always feed and treat in the same order starting with Sparty. I don't let Izzy get in his bed at bedtime either. We learned after a couple of bad altercations with Buffy (much blood on Sparty) to nip it right away. I think it is pretty normal behavior. I just feel more comfortable stepping in. I am in charge after all! LOL After all this is a breed that is supposed to tell a large cow what to do....
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Thanks, guys. I'm glad to hear how you were handling this -- that's what I've done too. I am definitely in charge here, so have been able to step in and stop things. Ethel does respond to a firm "no" when just doing a rumbly growl, and I feed Bertie first, let him through the door first, etc. I guess I'll just keep at it. We've all been doing agility classes too, and Ethel will sniff at the larger dogs, but she and a little Pom both bare teeth at each other (I'd forgotten this, as we had no class this week owing to weather) -- and the other Corgi in her class, who is overweight, barks incessently and is totally the class clown, drives her nuts and she really wants to put him in his place! (To be honest, I do too -- such a good dog, and being led astray by his loving owner.) But I also just hate it when Bertie's world doesn't go the way he expects it too -- the look on his face tears my heart in two, if you know what I mean. He thinks everyone in the world is as nice as he is, and that all people carry treats at all times. And no matter how often he is proved to be wrong, he won't give up.
But I have to laugh -- now I have images of cows dancing around as if with a hotfoot while Ethel growls and yaps at them. I can't let her know her power or there could be a coup here! lol.
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Hi Susan,
I occasionally have this with my Livvy and what I have decided with her is that she feels she needs to be "in charge" If I put her on a leash even in the house she is much less apt to be this way...I think it takes the stress off of her having to "control" as then I am in control.It's hard when my others are less dramatic but she especially wants to pick on my rescue(pecking order?). It takes time and I don't think Livvy will ever change completely as this is her personality but the firm guidelines spelt out by you will help...as she will have those boundaries she knows she will have to follow!
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