Dog and Cat play: How much is too much?
When we had my sweet old cat, Alice, she ignored the dogs, so this "dogs and cats playing" thing is pretty new to me and I'm not sure where to draw the line.
Many years ago, my parents had a foundling cat who used to play outside with my aunt's Jack Russell terrier. They would play tag, they would box and wrestle, but they were the same size and so it was all innocent joy to watch.
Our new kitten, Boo, is nearly grown and probably about 7 pounds of youthful exuberance. She likes the dogs and after an initial transition period where Maddie stalked the cat endlessly, things have settled down and most of the time they all hang out together, quietly enjoying each other's company.
However, the cat likes to play with the dogs. One thing she does, which I don't mind, is stalk the dogs, run up and bat them a few times and then dart off. Jack tires of the game quickly, and Maddie will chase as many times as the cat "attacks." If the cat gets to be too much I'll put her away for awhile and get her to play with her toys, but usually she's fine and I know that this behavior will settle down as she matures.
What I'm not so sure of, though, is the mock "fights" that she and Maddie engage in. I want to make clear that Maddie play-bows for the cat, and she play-barks at the cat (if I had any doubt it was a play bark, Jack settles the question by sometimes getting confused by going over to engage Maddie in a game, only to be disappointed when she ignores him because she's playing with the cat). Maddie has had many opportunities to grab the cat and never once tried to (the cat will even go in the dogs' crates to snooze). So I know it's play, but I don't know if it's safe play or not.
Basically, what happens is Boo will make her "I'll pounce on you!!" fake-fierce face at Maddie and flip on her back, front paws extended. Maddie will bark-bark-bark at the cat, centimeters from her face, and air-snap in her direction with each bark. She's never made contact with the cat. The cat responds by boxing Maddie about the face and ears repeatedly, and even mimics Maddie's play-snaps by snapping her own jaws at Maddie. Then Boo will leap up, charge off sideways with question-mark tail, and have Maddie chase her. Then Boo will find another spot and flip over on her back and start the whole mock-fight thing again.
On the one hand, both animals seem to enjoy their game so much. On the other, I worry that one will get over-excited and Maddie will get seriously scratched (kitty has all her claws), or Maddie will "forget" to self-handicap in her excitement and bite the cat for real, and what would happen if she felt fur in her teeth? Would that tip her from play drive to prey drive? Maddie is not a small Corgi and weighs about 28 pounds, so even when the cat is full grown Maddie will be about 3 times her size.
All advice/input greatly appreciated!
Many years ago, my parents had a foundling cat who used to play outside with my aunt's Jack Russell terrier. They would play tag, they would box and wrestle, but they were the same size and so it was all innocent joy to watch.
Our new kitten, Boo, is nearly grown and probably about 7 pounds of youthful exuberance. She likes the dogs and after an initial transition period where Maddie stalked the cat endlessly, things have settled down and most of the time they all hang out together, quietly enjoying each other's company.
However, the cat likes to play with the dogs. One thing she does, which I don't mind, is stalk the dogs, run up and bat them a few times and then dart off. Jack tires of the game quickly, and Maddie will chase as many times as the cat "attacks." If the cat gets to be too much I'll put her away for awhile and get her to play with her toys, but usually she's fine and I know that this behavior will settle down as she matures.
What I'm not so sure of, though, is the mock "fights" that she and Maddie engage in. I want to make clear that Maddie play-bows for the cat, and she play-barks at the cat (if I had any doubt it was a play bark, Jack settles the question by sometimes getting confused by going over to engage Maddie in a game, only to be disappointed when she ignores him because she's playing with the cat). Maddie has had many opportunities to grab the cat and never once tried to (the cat will even go in the dogs' crates to snooze). So I know it's play, but I don't know if it's safe play or not.
Basically, what happens is Boo will make her "I'll pounce on you!!" fake-fierce face at Maddie and flip on her back, front paws extended. Maddie will bark-bark-bark at the cat, centimeters from her face, and air-snap in her direction with each bark. She's never made contact with the cat. The cat responds by boxing Maddie about the face and ears repeatedly, and even mimics Maddie's play-snaps by snapping her own jaws at Maddie. Then Boo will leap up, charge off sideways with question-mark tail, and have Maddie chase her. Then Boo will find another spot and flip over on her back and start the whole mock-fight thing again.
On the one hand, both animals seem to enjoy their game so much. On the other, I worry that one will get over-excited and Maddie will get seriously scratched (kitty has all her claws), or Maddie will "forget" to self-handicap in her excitement and bite the cat for real, and what would happen if she felt fur in her teeth? Would that tip her from play drive to prey drive? Maddie is not a small Corgi and weighs about 28 pounds, so even when the cat is full grown Maddie will be about 3 times her size.
All advice/input greatly appreciated!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on
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Since Boo is young and learning...I believe they can play like this and not have a problem. My kitten that I saved from the cold and starving 2years ago plays like this with Livvy and all the other dogs and the only thing I worry about is that he will think some strange dog is "safe"! Boo doesn't go out??? Then I wouldn't worry it's never happened here in 2 years and they have so much fun! Once in a very great while I do hear a dog whimper and that means that the dog got too rough and the cat let her/know! I figure it's fun and great exercise! Yes, this is going on 2 years and they still play like this so don't count on them "settling down" anytime soon!
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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No, she'll never go out! Yes that is always a worry when the cats get used to "their" dogs and then think strange dogs are friendly when they are not. By the same token, I would never trust my dogs loose with stray cats; they really sound like they want to kill them when they see them.
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Permalink Reply by Renee Kovacs on
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I have a 10 lb cat and a 30 lb Cardigan and they've developed their own way around the House Rules that I find so incredible, but also so simple. The 'House Rules' were laid out from day one - primarily to protect the cat, because the dog is the one who tends to get a bit over-excited and has some obvious size/weight advantages. I didn't realize the 'rule' I was creating, but ...if the cat made a noise, I'd say to the dog "Hey! Are you being nice?" Well ...as we know, Corgi's are pretty clever.
To the dog, the rule became "The cat can not make a sound or it's Game Over". To the CAT (equally clever) it became "If you want to play, shut up about it!"
They run, chase each other - often switching chaser/chasee roles, wrestle, you name it - in COMPLETE silence. The dog will pull the cat across the floor, down from chairs - and has learned that he must NEVER touch the cat's feet or tail - as this will bring about a cat-sound! When these guys were young (they are 6 & 9 years old now), I never intervened unless the cat was at risk, and as most cats - if he was being hurt or the dog was just getting over-zealous, he'd make some noise. Noise was the game-killer. I never imagined that the cat would 'get' the rule, too! The cat ends up looking like he fell into a jar of hair gel from being mouthed by the dog; the dog absolutely never touches paws or tail, and all this is done is absolute silence. It's pretty hysterical to see what the cat will endure without making a sound, just so they can keep playing!
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It's funny how they learn the rules! Boo will sometimes hiss when she plays (I looked it up to be sure, and cats/kittens will "play hiss" when they mock fight, much in the same way dogs play-growl). I was worried it would desensitize the dogs to real hissing, but yesterday one of them startled her (she's deaf) and Boo hissed at the dogs, and Maddie put her ears right down and slinked away. The play hissing she ignores. I guess they learn to interpret each other's language!
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Permalink Reply by Bev Levy on
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One of my cats (Spud) was a tiny cat, in his prime he never weighed more than 8 lb. He loved our 55lb Standard Poodle so much. They wrestled, chased, slept together, and gave each other baths all their lives. Spud did not have back claws and at first I was afraid they would hurt each other but they never did. It was quite fun to watch! After Scooby (poodle) died Spud took a liking to Buffy (corgi) but never Sparty. Spud was older but still would sleep with Buffy and they would wash each other's face and ears. I would let them figure it out unless it appears one is really not in "the game" mode any more. My current group just chases and will occasionally sleep together but nothing like Spud and Scooby but the cats were adults when I got them. Enjoy the fun!
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Permalink Reply by Vee Luther on
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I have lots of cat and corgi stories very much like these. Our newest cat, Loretta, even drops from trees onto the back of a passing corgi. They play tag a lot, chase and wrestle. I'm sure the noise rule is at work here, too. She does have all her claws and bats the boys around quite a bit but has never scratched them.
However, she now catches a LOT of lizards and brings them home to me. The 3 corgis are definitely looking at her a bit differently now that they understand she can --and will--kill things!
I think if any of them got hurt it would be purely accidental and very minor.
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I think after hearing everyone's stories I will let it go. After a little work, Maddie will stop as soon as I step in if they are getting too wound, so it still seems very controlled. If you just looked quickly you would swear Maddie was trying to kill the cat, while the cat was trying to fight her off. However, the cat normally initiates. I just wish it weren't so noisy! lol
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Permalink Reply by Carol Rea on
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Our inside only cat has been known to stalk the corgis at night when she thinks we have all gone to bed! I caught her one night pouncing from a chair onto the boy who had spent quite an afternoon gleefully chasing her around the house. When he tired of the game, he curled up beside her, thinking all was well, but she had the last laugh! The cat and one corgi sleep together, and he allows the cat to rub up against him. I wouldn't worry. all of our corgis have played with all of our cats over the years.
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