Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on October 10, 2010 at 12:30am

My vet didn't use a local....I don't believe but I still didn;t like it and the pups didn't really scream but it was just not something I will put any through plus I love their tails and as Beth said why take a healthy body part off ? Back dews is a different matter but of the last 2 litters...mine have had only 2 back dews(total) in each litter...

Permalink Reply by Carrie Ritter on October 12, 2010 at 2:31am

At school I researched a study done on lamb docking, which questioned if it was better to give them a local anesthetic or not (which is what is usually done). They measured the lambs stress and found that they were more upset when given the local first than with the docking procedure. Has to do with the extra handling, getting a shot, etc.

Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on October 12, 2010 at 8:52am

@ Carol...that makes sense as to all the extra handling and shots!

I have a girlfriend that has a dairy farm who also gets upset with all these people docking cow tails so short...she says that this is their only defense to swoosh flies!

Permalink Reply by Karen & David Roth on October 12, 2010 at 9:17am

Amen again, Beth!! You are great at articulating my own thoughts on this issue. (Aside: used to work for a vet, treated a little terrier whose dewclaws were intact -- she got one caught in an afghan, panicked, and ripped it almost off. Lots of pain. So I'm with you on removing dewclaws.)

Permalink Reply by Jane on October 10, 2010 at 9:13am

I have nothing against pems with tails, but I would never contact a breeder that was leaving all the tails intact. It would be a huge red flag to me that the breeder is not serious about showing their dogs, and possibly not breeding to the standard. Usually breeders have litters in order to try and produce a lovely show quality puppy or two for themselves or friends. If they're not doing that, then what are they breeding for? Cute pets? That is not someone I would want to get a puppy from personally.

Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on October 10, 2010 at 10:23am

@ JaneThat is your personal opinion and you don't know me so don't make assumptions! There are other things other than show such as obedience rally and therapy dog! According to the AKC club that I go to they can be titled in that just a different one. Also what about the herding ...that doesn't mean anything? People work hard for several different reasons! I know in the US it's hard to find and I understand what you're saying but it is much worse to dock tails in a puppy mill...does that mean they are better because they are docked?????????? I have looked all over to find undocked pems and found 2 people. One would sell a pup and other people on this site have their dogs and they have up and coming champs! The other has a breeding contract and there is no way I will be shipping a dog all over the country to let them breed my dog and not have it with me! Change is hard but it will happen, actually it has started so you might as well get used to it. Evidently you won't be getting a Pem from most other countries as many of them have banned it!

Permalink Reply by Jane on October 10, 2010 at 1:42pm

Correct me if I'm wrong but this is a forum where people express their personal opinions, and you did ask for input yes? I never criticized you personally, I'm just saying from my point of view, that is how I would interpret a breeder who leaves the tails undocked. Unless the standard is changed, that's just how I see it. And yes, if a breeder was leaving the tails natural I would expect the parents to be very heavily titled in another area.

Permalink Reply by Beth on October 10, 2010 at 12:23pm

Yet if they all do it just because that's how it's done, who will be the one to change it?

This is Jack's sire, FIN/EST CH Anwyl Winds O Change ROMX

Credits to http://www.corcin.info/dogs_dundee.htm
and http://www.gaylordogs.com/Dundee.html

He did quite well for himself here, and yet all his offspring that show in the States (and there are many) show without tails. Why? As far as I can tell, just because that is how it's always been done.

I'm not criticizing the choices of any individual breeders for following the standard, but as best I can determine, the only reason Corgis are docked is because that's what used to be done centuries ago back in Wales, for tax purposes. There is no practical reason to dock a Pem. A Cardi, after all, does the same historical job and managed quite well with its tail.

Permalink Reply by Karen & David Roth on October 10, 2010 at 5:25pm

Beth,

Amen, sister.

Permalink Reply by Tegan, Carol & John on October 10, 2010 at 10:02pm

OMG, he is GORGEOUS!!!!!!

Permalink Reply by Carole and Sophie on October 11, 2010 at 7:41am

Oh what a beauty he is!

Permalink Reply by Chris Payerl on October 10, 2010 at 10:17pm

They could be breeding for healthy dogs, not just pretty packages. Just my opinion.

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