Biting Us- HELP
I have been putting off writing this as I hoped we would be able to sort out Po's aggression issues on our own. He's just over a year now and has been biting us since we got him. As a pup we tried everything, from the water bottle, to compressed air, 'No', 'no bite', 'uh uh', all of it. The turning our back when he bites is a complete failure as it hurts when he bites and we're unable to ignore the behavior. We're contemplating clicker training him- but will this be a good way to train him out of attacking us for no good reason? He bites mostly as a form of play, or to get our attention. It seems to happen most when he's excited. He's fine on his leash though- never aggressive when he's on that.
A foreseeable problem we have with clicker training is his persistence to get food. If we have treats on us all the time he will be up on us, trying to get them.
Note: We've tried a trainer but none of the recommendations worked- her main philosophy was ignoring the behaviour but that's hard to do when it hurts. We were told to wear more appropriate clothing (it was summer and I was in shorts) but I think its unrealistic to expect us to wear jeans, a long sleeved top and boots in our own house especially in the heat of summer.
I just want to say that despite this Po is a great dog- he's cute and can be a sweet dog. He's a little slow on the uptake when it comes to learning new things, but we love him so much despite his annoying tendencies. We really want to figure out a way to curb his biting behaviour.
A foreseeable problem we have with clicker training is his persistence to get food. If we have treats on us all the time he will be up on us, trying to get them.
Note: We've tried a trainer but none of the recommendations worked- her main philosophy was ignoring the behaviour but that's hard to do when it hurts. We were told to wear more appropriate clothing (it was summer and I was in shorts) but I think its unrealistic to expect us to wear jeans, a long sleeved top and boots in our own house especially in the heat of summer.
I just want to say that despite this Po is a great dog- he's cute and can be a sweet dog. He's a little slow on the uptake when it comes to learning new things, but we love him so much despite his annoying tendencies. We really want to figure out a way to curb his biting behaviour.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Stephanie on
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I'll be looking forward to the answers you get here - Goldy is biting me. If I tell her no and try to redirect her she bites me. I f I tell her no she looks at me and barks...Bear talks back sometimes, but she's just naturally more ... direct with her attitude. She's young, just 10 weeks old, and we'll do obedience classes, but so far, so NOT good.
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Permalink Reply by Beth on
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Have you tried the step-down method instead of cold turkey?
Jack had a seriously hard time understanding the "no teeth on me" rule when he was a puppy. Not much seemed to work, and if I walked away from him every time he bit me I would never have been able to play with him.
I did a lot of looking online, and found one trainer who said with especially mouthy dogs, it can be tough to get them to stop. So what he recommended (and what worked for us) was that you actually encourage/allow the mouthing on your hands ONLY and when the bite is so hard it hurts, you give your "no" and get up and leave. In the beginning you may be tolerating biting that is just below the level where it would break skin.
As days go by, you tolerate only softer and softer mouthing before you say "no" and get up and leave. You are basically teaching bite suppression before bite inhibition. Jack stayed with his litter til 10 weeks, but they must have been some rough puppies because boy, did he bite hard! So we used the step-down method. Or I should say, I did. LOL My husband loves the dogs but is not their trainer. I would sit on the floor and actively put my hands near him so he would bite them, then when he would give a particularly hard bite I would say "No" and get up and leave the room (baby gates are needed for this). That would continue for a few days, then I would tolerate a less-hard bite before saying "No" and every few days less and less hard bites were tolerated. Really in no time he was only mouthing me softly, and when we reached that point we started enforcing "no teeth on me."
He is not at all a mouthy dog at this point and never nips. Even if I try to play mouthy games with him using my hand, he will rarely make contact with skin and if he does it's soft as could be.
Give it a try. I think it will work better with Goldy, because of her age, than with Potus, but it could help him understand the concept too.
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By the way, an adult dog with no bite suppression could break bones and not just skin, so please use your own judgement in doing this with an older dog.
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Permalink Reply by Buddy & Wynstan on
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This works very well, our german shepherd (puppy mill rescue, didn't get to learn bite suppression with her littermates) is trained in this way, but if you run, she does bite the buttocks. I do not think you have to worry about that with a corgi though!
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Permalink Reply by Jane Christensen on
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Actually a corgi can bite (well nip) you in the butt! My male will occasionally do this although he never bites hard...I feel this nip and have always thought of it as how stud horses will nip...he does this as I'm walking away...doesn't really hurt but it does surprise me! This is all he does he never bites hands or anyplace else!
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Permalink Reply by Wendt Worth Corgi's on
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Instead of playing with your hands...use toys. Many pups who were pullled from litter mates too early dont learn bite aggression or pups that have been with litter mates but not much socialization with humans. One training method that many on here have heard about that works wonderfully is NILF...Nothing In Life Is Free. You can google it will come across many sites about it. Your dog is getting older and is going to take some time to work with him. Make sure he is also getting the appropriate amount of exercise to release pent up energy so he isn't so hyper or plays so hard with you.
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Permalink Reply by Cindi on
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And to piggy back on Wendt Worth, who always has wonderful information, are you walking Potus or just playing? Walking is a good way to wear out a dog. Playing is mental energy up. For example, playing sports your body may get tired but your mind is still working. Walking is mental energy down. Think of walking in the woods. After a few minutes, your body AND mind both relax. Of course, one must train their dogs to walk well on a leash for it to work.
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Permalink Reply by Potus on
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Potus gets walked a lot- at least 2 or 3 times a day, both long walks and short. In addition to this we play with him.
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Permalink Reply by Bev Levy on
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I would try Beth's idea and the NLIF plan. At his age he is becoming pretty invested in this behavior. Whatever you do, you will need to be very consistent. Remember he has been successful for a long while and will need some work to really understand this is unacceptable. try a different Obedience instructor too. Regular classes can work wonders for a pushy dog.
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I definitely agree with the NILF too, and obedience classes with an instructor who you mesh with is a great idea too!
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I wanted to add a little more about the method.
You will know you are getting somewhere if the dog starts to soften up his bite a little when you say "ah-ah." That means he is getting the idea that you mean "too hard!" and is understanding the concept.
I spent a little time thinking back to what I did with Jack. He was a puppy and quite young so it'll be different with an adult dog. I do want to add that he was also socialized with people when we got him, but even now as an adult he plays very rough (with other dogs) and I just think he's not a naturally gentle dog. His breeder mentioned that after they were fully weaned, she would put the mom back with the pups to play and she was so rough with them that they would run away when they saw her coming!!! So I think as I said his whole litter may have been very rough-and-tumble.
Anyway, what I would do with Jack is try to avoid having him bite me most of the time when playing by engaging him with a tug toy or something else (and I used the tug to teach him "leave it" so he did not develop toy-dominance from it). He was confined to the kitchen, so he could not solicit me to play; I had to seek him out. If Potus is still biting at a year you may want to take away some of his freedom til he learns more appropriate mouth behavior.
I would work on the biting thing a few times a day for just a few minutes at a time. I would take him, bring him close to me (preferably on my lap) and just engage him in mouthing my hands. I would figure out what the "normal" bite strength was for him at that stage, and tolerate it, but any time he gave a hard bite, I would say "ah-ah" calmly but firmly, not real sharply. If he would then reduce the bite strength at all I would say "good boy" in an upbeat but still calm voice. If he did not reduce, I would say "ah-ah" again and disengage him from my hand (never pull your hand away as it encourages chasing; always pry off the puppy instead) and I would get up and step over the baby gates and leave him. I would stay out of the room for only a minute or two then go back and try again.
As I said, a few short sessions a day was all I did. It does take a lot of patience in that it's time consuming. You should start to see some improvement if the dog is getting it, but by stepping down gradually you need a realistic expectation that it will take some time to extinguish the behavior.
As far as getting your attention, you want to provide him with another way to do that. With Jack I taught him the names of toys and when he would be trying to get my attention by barking or something else unwanted, I would correct him and then send him to get a toy. To teach the names of toys, you want to use behavior-shaping techniques. You don't need a clicker, you can use your voice as the "click" with a word like "yes" or "good." Get the dog's favorite toy (with Jack, we used his Nylabone puppy keys). Have the dogs attention, say "Where are keys? Get keys!" and jiggle the toy. Since he knows you are training and training=treats, he may not want the toy. He'll look at you. Jiggle the toy again. If he so much as touches it with his nose, say "Yes!" or "Good!" and treat. As he gets the idea, start rewarding for putting the mouth on the toy, then picking it up. In my experience with Jack, there was an "Ah-hah!" moment for him where he got the idea that I wanted him to actually grab the toy, and at that point you give the mega-reward (have a praise party, say "good boy, good boy!", for me I know I'm praising enough for the "ah-hah" moment when my dog starts to dance around and say arooo). But after that you will switch over to your reward being to play with the toy with your dog, which is why you want to start with his favorite toy.
Once they know the name of one, you can show them other toys and give the name and throw it and say "get tennis ball" or whatever, and if they go get the training toy you say "No, that's keys. Get TENNIS BALL" and show the appropriate toy. Presto, your dog knows nouns, and now if he wants to play with you, instead of biting or barking at you he'll get you a toy.
I always try to think of training in terms of replacing unwanted behaviors with wanted ones in a shaping process. The end result is a dog that is much more in tune with human psychology, in my opinion. I use Jack as my example because Maddie was not with us as a puppy and I'm still working out what makes her learning "click".
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